The Framers Forum

Has anyone ever been asked for 'green framing' ie environmentally sensitive framing? It strikes me there are probably many chemicals used in the production of conservation grade materials used in framing to protect the artwork but what is done to the environment in the process? I have seen 'green' FSC mouldings on offer but not much else.

I can't imagine what chemicals are used in the production of moulding finishes etc. and perhaps some are made in regions where environmental issues are lower down the priority list. Do any of the suppliers reading this have any sight of the production methods of the materials they stock?

Has anyone considered green framing as a potential USP?

GS

GeoSpectrum wrote:
It strikes me there are probably many chemicals used in the production of conservation grade materials used in framing to protect the artwork but what is done to the environment in the process?

GS

That is a very sweeping position you have on the subject of conservation framing, what do you base that statement on!!!! or can you point to any support references for it….

Dermot wrote: That is a very sweeping position you have on the subject of conservation framing, what do you base that statement on!!!! or can you point to any support references for it….

"it strikes me there are probably...." It also strikes me that there may not be.
"what is done to the environment?"....Its a question...

So what are you trying to say!!!

The world of conservation/preservation framing has enough issues to deal with in developing good materials and working methods to ensure as a realistic business option for framers, this respected position that conservation/preservation framers have worked hard for should not be referred or described to in way’s that are not substantiated.

dermot

i think its a valid question

Are you suggesting the the production of for example museum grade mount board doesnt use lots of chemicals which do harm to the envioroment

I do think that your response was a little harsh, after all it was questions that were being asked not anything harder

and its this kind of open discussion that allows this forum to thrive, so let not put off new members from opening these discussions.

I do understand your statement that its been hard to get to where we are now, BUT i do belive its forums like this that will shape our industry, so discussing these kind of issues should be encouraged

Hi GS,

You raise an interesting topic.

I feel a true "Green" framing model would be to recycle old frames, however I dont think it would be a good business model.

The production of most Mounts and Backing boards is a highly industrial process. Even "cotton" mounts involve cleaning of the cotton which uses very large quantities of water.

White Core and Conservation mounts use chemical buffers as well as large quqntities of water, dyes etc.

An ironic point is that the most "Green" backing board is the Grey Board which is made from re-cycled newspapers is probably the least "conservation" board there is.

Maybe some of the manufactures out there could contribute to this debate, Is there a"Green" framing model?

Once again GS, Welsome to the Forum and for starting what I hope will be an interesting topic

Stephen

absolute framing wrote:An ironic point is that the most "Green" backing board is the Grey Board which is made from re-cycled newspapers is probably the least "conservation" board there is.

Again, I am stunned to learn that this stuff is supplied as a backing board specifically for framing!

I don't think many framers use it for backing frames with, or for an 'under-mount'. I think, going by what I get to frame/re-frame, it is used mainly for dry mounting on to and for stiffening cheap prints.

Regards green framing, maybe the materials we use are only a small piece of the picture. How do people get to you and how far do they travel? I think most of us wouldn't have much of a business if the average family did not have at least one car. Yesterday a customer did a 100 mile round trip to spend £13 with us - couldn't find the product anywhere else, happens all the time too, so I'm afraid we're not too eco friendly

Hi GS

Have I ever been asked about 'green framing' by a customer? No.
Have I ever been asked about sustainable wood by customers when choosing a frame? Maybe twice in 20 years.
Have I been asked (without me instigating the conversation) about preservation/conservation of artwork by customers? Very occasionally, maybe once a month -normally by collectors.

So would I build my business around any of these areas as my USP? NO!

There is a lot of hot air spoken about "environmentally friendly" this and "carbon footprint" that but those spouting this stuff are using electricty in the media or paper for printed word - or even worse standing outside an empty building at 10pm at night with a mssive film crew telling us about all the disasterous things that may happen to us if we dont save energy and the environment. Note that it is always some one elses job to do this.

As for paper making, it is energy intensive, but it may interest you to know that most of the big paper mills use CHP (combined heat and power) to generate electricty {very eco friendly}, all of the water is recycled many times, because it costs so much and the emissions are kept to levels far lower than we as consumers put out at home becuase of the EU trading scheme. Industry is making many steps forward in reducing energy - mostly because it makes economic sense.

Like Jim I have never been asked about "environmentally friendly" framing but I do burn all of the customers old frames on the woodburning stove which lowers my carbon footprint.

Perhaps we should not use Minerva as they are plastic. Now where is my environmentally friendly Morso??

Steve

From Mainlines website - ‘Polcore is recycled polystyrene - an alternative picture moulding material.’
And, so they have told me the waste can be recycled as well the same way polystyrene is recycled (if you can find somewhere that will recycle it!)
So Polcore is green (ish).

Things I would take in to consideration when striving to be green –
Where have the materials come from? – a lot of moulding we use originated from south America or the Far East = lots of carbon miles! Do any suppliers in the UK sell moulding made out of British grown wood?
Has the wood come from a Sustainable source? Has it got a FSC (Forest Stewardship Council certification)? http://www.fsc-uk.org/
Next time you order some moulding ask your supplier – see which ones get nervous!

How green is your workshop? Is it well insulated? Do you have low energy light bulbs? Do you recycle your waste?

And you can always reuse old frames / mounts / backing / glass. I have customers who bring in old frames that they have cleaned up – varnished – painted and such like and get me to use them to frame their pictures. I’m very happy to do that for them.

All worth thinking about so when Mrs. Customer asks at least you can give her an answer!

have I been asked about environmental matters / carbon footprint / other greenwash issues by customers:
yes, often.
personally i think most of it's bollocks.
I have a button in my 4 litre Jeep that says "climate control" so i hit that, then drive round with the windows open at 15 miles to the gallon, if we all followed that routine then we are all sorted out. ... aren't we and we keep the oil industry going in time of recession.
I am extra environmentally concious because I chose the 4 litre jeep, not the 6 litre.

actually all my plastic, including plocore/emafyl/whatever offcuts go to recycling, all my board goes to recycling, all my board is FSC anyway, my glass all goes to recycling, all my staff live within walking distance (no transport carbon) and we use energy saving lamps because we save ££££s a day. all my mouldings to the best of my knowledge come from uk/italy/spain and comply with eu environmental regulations/pollution regulations, ALL the mailers we use are recyclable/biodegradeable. ....
which all happens to be a happy accident, because the law makes it so.

people ought to get a grip on this greenwash hysteria. your average feckin hippy in a 2cv or fume belching diesel peugot 205 pumps out more shyte into the air driving to put his soy sauce bottle in the recycling at the local dump than he saves in carbon.

Deploy the Jeep, hit climate control, thats what I say
You are only here once. what do you want to do, leave the world to a load of hippies?

I said that out loud, again, didn't I

I have no issue with “green” framing.

My issue is with the unsupported statement about conservation/preservation framing and it impact on the environment.

On a personal leave I have put my mouth where my money is when it comes to the environment, over the last year my wife and myself have spent close to €100,000 improving the “green” standard of our home, everything from new windows, new heating system, insulation, to name just a few things we have done, we also run a full recycle program in our home to manage our recycling needs, also my office and workshop/stores were completely rebuilt from the ground up last year to provide an environmentally sound work area for myself and the business I’m in.

My wife is also a leading world expert in her area of responsibility as an environment sustainability business manager.

The world of conservation/preservation framing was going green long before it was a fashionable business model.

Regarding conservation/framing products this is just one bit of information about mount/mat board from one of the leading producers in the world.

“Designed for conservation, 100% Cotton Museum Board is the standard for the highest specification of Museum mounting since the early 1980’s and from that time has been the board of choice for major museums in Great Britain and Europe. Cotton is “born” pure being almost 100% pure alpha cellulose and therefore requires less processing than wood sourced fibres.”

One of our own members on this forum supplies for the moulding market some of the most environmentally friendly products in the world when it comes to this area of framing.

In fact there is good sound economical business evidence that going green in your business can make quite a dramatic improvement to the bottom line of your business…… this is just one source supporting this approach to business.... http://www.infoworld.com/d/green-it/the ... 4?page=0,0

You cannot talk your business into a green model, you have to work at converting your business to a green model…….being disrespectful to other business models is not a good way to go about converting your business to a green model.

Now let me repeat I have nothing against going green in your business.

Priceless!

I laughed so hard when I read this that I fell off my chair and have been in traction ever since. I’m still in agony as I’m convulsed with deep guffaws every time I think of it.

It must surely be only a matter of time before some jumped-up little blow-hard starts crowing about how much greener he is than all the rest of us.

And about how our trade organisation does not begin to match his green credentials.

There will be scathing posts about some hapless “so-called expert” who, in the course of his practical demonstration, never once mentioned the use of greyboard, thus indicating a total lack of concern for our planet and the future of our children!

Of course his greyboard will be 2% greener than the industry standard.

He will spend half of his time in deep discussion with like minded green framers scoffing at the unenlightened Neanderthals who insist on framing without greyboard. Etc. Etc.

Sorry, I can’t go on...

Doctor told me I shouldn’t laugh for at least six weeks...

Well, maybe he (not 'she' then ?) will have points that can be taken or left and maybe those that are new to the trade, or not so but wanting to make every year's experience a different year, would be more likely to take, and those that are set in their ways more likely to leave.

"Priceless!....
.....It must surely be only a matter of time before some jumped-up little blow-hard starts crowing about how much greener he is than all the rest of "

Do you mean shrek?