The Framers Forum

Hi
Can anyone help on this topic. I have trained a member of staff to do just mount cutting and does not get involved in any other aspect of framing. I run a gallery outside of London and wondered if anyone out there may suggest an hourly rate for a mountcutter?

Many thanks

Welcome to the forum!

Not easy to answer, depends on too may factors.

But anyway, assuming £7 per hour, which isn't much, and assuming an 8 hour day, five days a week, fifty two weeks a year, then that would come to £14560 (and maybe some repetitive strain injury if it's a manual cutter)!

If it is a manual cutter then the above annual amount up-front would get you a very nice CMC that would be paid for at the end of the first year!

How do you keep your member of staff motivated, when all they ever get to do is mountcutting? I think it would be worth teaching them to do a few other things too, so they don't get too bored.

Bored staff make mistakes, which will waste your money and make them even less motivated. Eventually they may get so bored that they will leave.

I would say £6.50 an hour would be enough as basic pay unless it's pressured CMC work (bit more technical and intelligence required, even if less practical skill).

It's probably quite a nice little job for someone not too ambitious without too much stress (relatively). You can offer a carrot of pay increments with the more skills learnt and useful/flexible they become.

If you are paying by the hour and include holidays I don't think you need to times Robo's weekly figure by 52, feasibly you could times by 48, but pay the amount evenly over 52 weeks so they get the hourly rate but feel they get holiday pay (helps them budget better). I think that would be quite normal.

You can also make the job more valuable to people by offering flexible hours e.g semi-retired people appreciate part-time and flexibility, parents may like a job 10 -3pm to reduce childcare costs etc.

Don't forget the legal requirement to pay at least the minimum hourly wage plus you have to give your staff 5.6 weeks paid holiday - over 21 £5.93 PH - the previous example, assuming a 35hr week would work out at £6.00 per hour, but you will still have to pay 5.6 weeks holiday pay.

I have invested heavily on machinary so as I didn't have to employ staff. And good job I did, so many business are suffering from paying staff wages. I have been able to pull my horns in and and survive with a reduced turnover. I would seriously consider a CMC instead of employing a full time member of staff to cut mounts. You will still need yourself or someone part time to operate.

My comment would be the same as Robo's............. get a CMC and let the rest of the workroom staff cut the mats.

A CMC:
is always on time
doesn't take breaks
doesn't talk back (most of the time)
is faster on complicated jobs
doesn't require vacation

An employee has a right to 5.6 weeks holiday but only if they work a 5 day week, and this does include bank holidays it seems from some quick internet research (if you give them off which yuo don't have to).

Interesting the entitlements went up in 2009 I think I read despite the worst economic times for business for 70-80 years. One more nail in the manufacturing exports coffin for the UK I suspect.

All my framers are self-employed and can take holiday whenever they wish within reason as they are good trustworthy people and support our needs, but they both have other hobby businesses that meant it was easy for them to issue invoices.

Sooner or later someone will have to go on the payroll as we grow - then the fun starts.

JamesC wrote:All my framers are self-employed and can take holiday whenever they wish within reason as they are good trustworthy people and support our needs, but they both have other hobby businesses that meant it was easy for them to issue invoices.

Sooner or later someone will have to go on the payroll as we grow - then the fun starts.

I tried to employ framers on a self employed basis and HMRC were unhappy for a self employed person to work for just one company. There is a loophole if the person becomes a Limited Company. Its then ok but it is a grey area.

An employee is entitled to 28 days holiday if they work full time or, if part time equivalant to 28 work sessions. If you give them Bank Holidays off , of which there are normally 8 they will also get another 20 days off. It is possible, via a contract to specify (within reason) when these holidays are taken.

I employ 8 people which means for over 40 weeks of every year there is always someone missing from the team!

Be very careful with 'employing ' self-employed people.

The law, and the attitude to upholding the law has changed in recent years, and HMRC will come down hard on you if they don't believe the people are genuinely self-employed. For example, if they work at your premises, using your tools, under your direction - then they ain't self-employed.

For anyone who has studied law, the difference is that in the past (pre Gordon Brown as chancellor) Tax Law generally only took into account Common Law, not Equity, now that has changed. If you haven't studied law ignore the last sentence.

If you do 'sail close to the wind' avoid paying NI, or do cash deals, its probably sensible to not mention it on a public forum.

As far as the holiday entitlements are concerned, the easy way to calculate it, is that all employees are entitled to 5.6 weeks paid holiday (including Bank Holidays). If they work 5 days a week they will get 5.6 x 5 days paid holiday, if they only work 2 days a week, then they will get 5.6 x 2 days paid holiday.

If they are genuinely self-employed they will get no paid holiday, and if you pay them holiday, then you are admitting that they are really employees, and you are open to a bill for unpaid tax and NI from HMRC

Usually when companies employ self employed people ie as sales staff consultants and they use your workspace telephones etc you have to charge them back for using your facilities !!! I think this would be a very grey area for employing someone for a manual job and not employing them for their intellect. That sounds very wrong but I hope you get what I mean.