The Framers Forum

Hi All,

Currently trying to get all my framing equipment sorted.

Have a bit of a dilemma though...

Should I,

a) Buy a 2nd hand underpinner from maybe ebay? Looking at something like a Cassese CS88 which are going for around £300-£400?

b) Wait until June (when they will be in stock) and buy a new M3, in the meantime make do with either an M1 or some other "cheap" alternative i.e. a 2nd hand Loagan studio joiner?

c) Some other alternative?...

Can't afford anything over around £400 or so.

Although will want to be busy, am expecting for the next 3-6 mths to be doing it more on a part-time basis rather than full-time. But I do want to be prepared for a busier full-time future! lol.

So initially it will be framing friends and family and my own photographic work, plus hopefully friends of friends and family and maybe a few local photographer's stuff.

Many thanks for continued support and advise!

Paul

I would buy a second hand CS88 but preferable not off fleabay. They are good little machines but they can get worn with use like any underpinner. Ask your self the question why they are on fleabay? usually because they are in carp condition and haven't been sold through normal channels. If you do buy one of flea bay or anywhere for that matter look at it befor you buy and see it in action. Make sure the hammer is smouth (the block gets worn with time) and that the spring holding the wedges in isn't slack and also runs freely.

Alistair

Hi there,

You should be able to get a good second hand machine for under £400. As someone who started framing only a year ago, the mistake I made was thinking at first that cheaper machines would do the job. I started framing for friends and very quickly found the limitations of cheap equipment and have had to upgrade which has cost me more in the long run.

I know there people wary of ebay, but bargains can be had on there, but I agree to beware and take precautions on ebay. We sell Antiques and paintings (mostly 19th century) through ebay and have recently sold items for £4,000 plus. We also purchased a new mount cutter recently from there and although we agreed to buy it, we made sure that we were totally happy that it was as described before paying.

The Cassese you mention is very good, I use an old Euro pneumatic which I love, but take the risk that as the business no longer exists, parts are hard to come by (no problems in 6 months), but others will know more about other machines.

Cheers

Nick

Hi Paul,

Welcome to the forum. Almost all of my equipment is secondhand and I've done very well with everything I have bought secondhand, so I'm speaking from experience. My current manual underpinner is a CS-88 and is a very early one too. It's had quite a lot of wear and I've had to mess around with it a bit at times, but I've got it running really well.

They really are great machines and it's well worth getting one. I thought I would just mention that the basic mechanism is also the same in the CS-79 and one or two other models. All these machines are good machines too, but not all have the same capabilities.

I had a CS-79 before I got this machine and that was great too, but the CS-88 has the capability to join larger mouldings. However the CS-79, being a newer design has some superior features the foot pedal mechanism is better than the CS-88 and it also has a very useful locking screw which is very useful when stacking wedges into positions in between the two limit stops. All of these machines are easily maintained, with good spares availability.

I've recently upgraded to a Gielle 4000e air powered machine, but I'm still keeping the CS-88 which like all Cassesse underpinners has the big advantage of being able to join slips, etc. with 3 or 4mm wedges, which are not available on most or perhaps all other makes of underpinner.

you Guys in England are better of then us Aussies here decent second hand equipment is like gold here and harder to find then water at times, so far the only second hand equipment i have seen are from England or America and niether are cheap when you factor in shipping costs.
Peter

I have a second hand CS88 from ebay. Works a treat and as said above, is easy to adjust and maintain yourself. I also have a second hand Morso and Fletcher 3100 wall mounted cutter also from ebay.

With ebay, it is no different to buying anywhere else really, as long as you remember "buyer beware". Watch the prices to get a good average, don't jump in and spend too much, check out buyer ratings and speak to the person selling if you can. Be patient and don't be too upset if you miss the bargain you were after, in fact if you think it is worth it use buy it now or make a sensible offer. Sure there are sharks and there is a lot of rubbish out there but it needn't be a bad place to bag a bargain.

Good luck!

Hi!

I bought a CS-88 new about 3 years ago and have been very pleased with it. I would agree with the sentiment that it's better to get decent equipment straight away, rather then get 'cheaper' stuff to start out with. I made that mistake...whilst it's good to start somewhere it DOES cost more in the long run.

And there ARE bargains to be had on ebay. I got my Morso on ebay...less than 3 years ago with absolutely no wear to it for half the price of a new one. So keep looking!

I bought a new M3 which is fine for softwood, but I have read that it is not really upto the job for hardwood so if you anticipate hardwood then wait for a CS-88.

If you're a regular *bay user then normal rules apply - as above it's very much buyer beware, but there's plenty of honest folk & straight kit on offer. (Seems to have been loads of Morsos over the last few weeks.)

If you're new to it then tread carefully - read descriptions like a lawyer but don't rely on them, and for something this dear make sure you try/inspect before you buy.

My *bay experiences were a rash/uninformed Morso F purchase and a lucky CS79 buy - although I've had to fork out for some Morso bits I still came in under a grand for the pair which was better than dealer used prices and for 'Fred in the shed' like I am, no deal killer VAT.

As long as the make (like Cassese) has good spares availability a bargain might be worth a punt - but if you're risk averse or more serious about it a dealer supplied unit with warranty might make more sense...

In any case buy 'proper' gear, it'll do the job you want and you can always get (a lot of) your money back if you change your mind.

Good luck
P