The Framers Forum

Ashley tells me today that all Wessex samples are now £1.00 each and the vlue of samples your order is then reimbursed when you spend over £500 with them.

The samples I have applied for today are going to be sent FOC, with this new rule coming into effect the next time I ask for some samples.

I've also had to pay £25 for the mountboard samples of Cresent's "better" ie. conservation range too.

Harsh but fair?

I'm moving over to Wessex as Lion's £50 minimum order charge doesn't work for me. If a person orders a frame from Lion's range and I only need a length then I have to drive to Hayes and get it which is about a 70 mile round trip.

Sorry Lion...!

Personally, I would not pay for samples on principle. Don't they want you to sell their range?

Arqadia have just supplied me with a full set of mountcard chevrons f.o.c. Arqadia, frinton, mainline and radius mouldings all supply me with free 1 foot samples f.o.c.

Yes

I couldn't agree more, we have had this conversation before, (my wife and I) several times - it basically starts - "Do they want us to buy from them - or not?"

I used to deal with about 5 different companies for moulding, now it is down to one - for 99% of my supplies. And I have just found out an alternative to Lion.

framersequipment.co.uk - think they have been in business longer too.

So if you are not happy with the supplier . . . (off topic I know but check this out, we just saved ourselves £37 per box of 500 envelopes for greetings cards - yes that is correct and guess what, the highest price was from the people who were making them for the other supplier!!!!) So, it pays to check with other suppliers ALL the time, this has taught us a valuable lesson, we thought the manufacturer would be the cheapest. Thought I ought to pass that on.

Take care
C

Maybe we have all just got used to our suppliers generosity in the past. £1 or 50p does not seem to unreasonable to me and it can always be added to the first job you do in that moulding. I don't suppose the customer will notice.

Hmmm in a very small way this is similar to why I have changed envelope suppliers (see previous post).

I am not sure that charging for samples is a good idea at all, nor the idea that your customers will not mind (see above post). Most of the mouldings are available from most suppliers, so guess it is up to the buyer.

Me, I want to be sure that what I order is what I want and that my client is going to be happy with it. Paying for a sample when I am not sure it is what I want, seems wrong - if I was sure in the first place, I wouldn't need the sample. That is the idea of the sample service.

I would think twice maybe three times before asking for a sample if I was charged for it - that would mean I would order less moulding from that supplier. Simple.

Cheers
C

does it follow from the logic of not paying for samples that you wouldnt charge you customers for samples too?

I charge my customers for samples

all be it a reduced rate i make sure to cover my costs

Most suppliers will send you a 4" 'reference' sample for free if all you want to do is see it in the flesh (to be sure what you order is what you want) as opposed to show it (a corner sample)

The only moulding (corner) samples I pay for are Larson Juhl from Arqadia, you can either buy the complete chevron set, with velcro, for a range (at far less than it's worth by the metre) or buy £50's worth of moulding from a range and get the chevron set thrown in, which is what I normally do - so it's still sort of free.

Simons will make a non-velcro-ed corner sample for you for free (well, that's assuming - they will for me) but Arqadia (outside of the L. Juhl range) will charge you, but they will also send you (me) a length long enough to make your own sample for free - so that's a no-brainer.

Nielsen provide me with any corner samples I want - wood or metal (both with velcro), complete ranges or individual mouldings, free, and for the metal they'll also provide hanging brackets and pegs. I don't buy mouldings (except in emergencies or to match something) from anyone but the above three.

I've never paid for a mount board chevron set.

I have to speculate to accumulate and I like companies that are prepared to do the same, but is Wessex applying this across the board - would they expect payment for samples from a customer that spends £500+ per month with them anyway?

Thanks all,

I do find it all a bit bemusing particularly as I have been supplied samples FOC in the past - ok, it's to show them but so what? If a customer sees a sample and orders it then it's an order for the respective supplier.

I have an issue with being charged for the conservation mountboards too as I already have a box of Crescent's "good" range and there are loads of colours of them, yet there are a fraction of them in the conservation range. Surely there should be hundreds of colours available in conservation boards and fewer in the "good" range due to most framer's using conservation boards as standard. Otherwise one might be tempted to just use the "good" range to frame everything due to the large selection on offer (which is wrong) as opposed to the paltry conservation selection.

Call me outspoken but I think Wessex are making it up as they go along - not happy....

Good, Better and Best - nice marketting.

How about Carp, Not Bad and Good? Would that work?

Not wishing to put the cat amongs the pigeons, but...
I can see both points of view.
Samples cost money and I would rather pay £1 for a sample (even though I amy not be happy about it) rather than have the price of the mouldings increased to cover the cost of samples sent to all the supplier's customers.
Surely the suppliers costs have to be recovered, the same as our costs are recovered.
Times are difficult for everyone, not just frame shops.
Sorry

In fairness to Wessex and any other suppliers who charge for sending out samples, it does not take a lot to figure out that none of them are making any profit from what they are charging. Cutting and handling samples is a major hassle and it costs money to employ someone to do it.

It still costs them money to do this, when you consider the fact that a lot of Wessex mouldings are high end expensive stuff, but introducing this small charge may help to reduce the number of samples requested from those who don't spend much money with them, while ordering loads of samples just because they are free.

The recession hits our suppliers as well as us.

I have just picked up a box of samples from Wessex London for free, as advised by the gentleman at FFL. Very grateful I am too.

I wouldn't have too much beef about paying (especially if refundable anyway), my only issue would be then, could you make them a little longer so that you can make a decent size chevron from them?

The practice of giving free samples or charging is one that we should perhaps leave to indiviual suppliers to negotiate with their customers. We all know that some of us get discounts from certain suppliers but this is on the basis of the turnover we do with those companies. I would not divulge on the forum what my arrangements are with my suppliers as I see that as being a confidential matter.

Back to samples/paid for chevrons. A 4" piece is useful as a reference and can be posted at little cost. Larger pieces cost a bit to post we should remember so there is an additional cost to the supplier over the piece of moulding.

I would say if larger pieces are sent then they should be 40cm long which then gives a decent sized chevron (Lion made up chevrons are 19cm along each edge).

One offer I did have from a supplier this week was - If you buy a length of moulding from us you have never had before then another length is supplied FOC. This gives enough to make up a chevron plus a frame to display and saves them cutting/joining and labeling the chevron. Now that is a generous offer.

its a big deal for suppliers

I remeber someone telling me arquadia employ 2 people fulltime to just make samples