The Framers Forum

I've never bought moulding on chop, but I'm wondering if this can actually improve profitability to any meaningful extent.

After all you pay more for the chop service, but then again you don't buy any more than required for the job.

Also what happens about the carriage, can you combine a normal moulding order and a chop order and only pay for a single carriage charge?

What are the pros and cons please?

We're fairly new to using chop for wooden mouldings but it definitely has benefits.

The off-cut pile behind the Morso has large quantities of moulding about 18" long that never seem to get used.In the end it gets damaged or don't match up with the next batch and end up on the woodburner!

We now offer a range which we get from A+T and Neilson which we only do in chop. Both these companies offer an excellent service as does Arqadia.
Although there is a premium to pay there is no waste at all . If the job is priced on this basis I don't see how you can go wrong. I think I'm right in saying Markw on the forum uses chop for the majority of his frames.

I'm not sure if you can combine carriage charges for lengths and chop.

I've only used chop for the occasional ally frame. Nothing much to go wrong. I'm a bit wary of doing this with wood moulding. Fine if everything goes to plan and the cuts are fine and the moulding is perfect and you don't do anything silly like banging a vnail though the top or measuring it wrong in the first place...... Need I go on?

I occasionally use chop and have used Lion, Arqadia and A&T. Worth comparing the extra charges for carriage and in the case of A&T they have an additional charge for packing. I think it is worth sitting down and analysing all the companies prices and making comparisons to what you would charge by buying lengths.

Each time I do a chop order I think " must do this more often" then don't get around to it and my pile of oddments grows ever bigger.

Remember if you order chop the lengths from which it will be cut have been carefully selected and beautifully cut on a double mitre saw then wrapped up in so much babble wrap you won't need to buy any of your own for a week or two.

When I do a job using lengths I usually make sure I am covered for the total amount I buy e.g. if the frame needs 3.7m and I have to buy 6m then I price the job as if It takes all 6m. But, I do have a lot of part lengths lying around so in retrospect these should have been chop orders.

This will only apply to the 'retail' end of our business. But if you are in the business of offering a choice of hundreds of mouldings for fussy retail customers to choose EXACTLY what they want, then chop service is a no-brainer.

The issue with picture framers and chop service, though, is the feeling of 'impotence'. Somebody else has cut my moulding! But think of it as outsourcing some of your donkey work. Let's face it, the bit you do at the Morso is not the most fun bit of picture framing - so outsource it to someone who has a huge, computerised double-mitre saw. If they get it wrong, they will replace it, and as J2M says, you get enough bubble -wrap FOC on each chop job to wrap yourself from head to toe, AND the finished picture.

So - what about restricting your length purchases to (say) your most popular 20 mouldings*, and buy the rest on chop. You can then have all the up to date stuff on the wall, but not cluttering up your workshop.

*If you have a computerised system - do a check on what your most popular mouldings are . . . . . you may be surprised that 20 will be plenty.

On the other hand, if you are more 'commercially orientated" think about an 'upmarket range' that you can display on a separate display board for those customers that want something more exclusive - we all have to widen the net a bit in these troubled times.

I use chop from Arqadia and been happy with the service.

The advantage I found is it enable me to show larger more expensive profiles, which I don't want to keep in stock and I keep samples on a special board for better quality clients who can't find any thing they like from my main range which I then bring out my special board and they think they are the bee's Knees.

I often buy two frames if I get an order for a customer and put a bevel mirror in it for stock.

Quality cut has always been good and packing, I have had the odd one damaged but I got a replacement no trouble.

Just make sure you measure correctly and don't over price, remember you have already saved labour but bought at a higher cost with no waste.

Chop is also very useful if you don't have a saw or wish to use an large profile or heavy ornate section.

Ideal for hard wood section where your underpinner wont cope, they will router and provide plastic plugs that push in (just add glue).

Mitreman

Gesso&Bole wrote:So - what about restricting your length purchases to (say) your most popular 20 mouldings*, and buy the rest on chop. You can then have all the up to date stuff on the wall, but not cluttering up your workshop.

This is a very interesting/pertinent post for me as I'm currently working through an Excel spreadsheet to do my Tax return
I'm a great one for burying my head in the sand, not thinking about the figures, just getting swept along by the joy of picture framing ...

I have a sea container about a mile up the road, I've had it for a few years now, it's 20ft long and I have it decked out with racking for all my stock ( you can see where I'm going with this ), I worked out that last year I spent £104/month to house stock, 95% of which I have never used..... Today I decided to eBay off all unwanted stock and next week I'll start clearing the container and hand in my keys .

Chop means I won't carry any "spare bits" never to be used, but I'd question the 20 mouldings that Jim refers to ? Surely Chop is only for the more expensive "bigger" moulding isn't it ? Most of us carry far more than 20 of the narrower mouldings that aren't available in Chop ?
Explain yourself Jim !

Morning Adam.

So if your sea container is full up with £100s worth of stock of thin moulding that you never use - is that OK?

I would suggest that if you analyse your sales of different mouldings, there will be only about 20 that justify keeping stock (obviously each business will be different, so it might be 10 it might be 30) but you wont need as many as you think.

i only keep about 10 mouldings in stock

the rest i order as needed

keeping hundred of mouldings seems to be a common thing, yet just hundred or even thousands of pounds sat in stock waiting to be damaged or worse seems mad

I spoke to the nice man that rents me my Sea Container today and have agreed to clear it and hand back the keys on the 29th July, so I've got just over 2 weeks to sort out moulding I'm going to eBay off, moulding I'll try and offload to customers at a reduced rate and the other stuff I'll be delivering to my local Recycling centre

I think it'll be quite a relief, I can't believe I made such a mistake with my stock, it's the oldest trick in the book isn't it ?, ploughing money into stock you may never use ...