The Framers Forum

Hi,

I'm very new to framing and this site although have had great fun reading all the posts to get advice or suggestions on equipment! My wishlist is growing!

Unfortunately I am not doing framing professionally or for money - this is just a hobby, so I can't afford any expensive equipment, although I do realise that to get professional results you have to splash out on some of these things. I have bought myself a dakota self-squaring framing clamp and the Logan mat cutter (301-S). And luckily my partner's dad has an electric mitre saw so hopefully that's the main things covered.

My question is this: for doing small to medium sized frames (max A2), how important is it to use V-nails along with the glue? I do realise that using both is preferable. I've already got the glue (Titebond) but as I can't afford an expensive underpinner (or even a mediumly priced one) at this stage, is it even worth trying to use a handheld V-nail inserter (e.g. PushMaster, EzyFramer - pg. 12 + 14 in the Lion catalogue)?

Has anyone had any experience with these handheld ones?

As I said, I'm only doing this as a hobby so time is not an issue (thank goodness).

Many thanks,
Kirsty

Hi and Welcome Kirsty.

Underpinners are a relatively new thing in the annals of picture framing. Nothing wrong with hammer and nails although you do need a good mitre vice (Stanley?) to make the job easier. It does mean filling the nail holes, but that is a lost art that shouldn't be allowed to be forgotten.

The main part of the strength in a corner is the glue bond. But if this gives way for any reason the whole thing falls apart. Nails serve the purpose of holding the frame while the glue sets, protecting the join from jolts and such and as a failsafe if the glue bond fails completely.

Welcome to the forum Kirsty,
No matter what the size of the frame, it is preferable to glue and pin (or under-pin - V nail) I always think of the pin/underpin as an internal clamp, which holds the corner together until the glue dries and adds strength to the joint.

Steve

Thanks for your replies. So now I need to plan how to pin / nail (I'll forget the underpinner for now). Would it be good to use 2 Stanley heavy duty corner clamps (http://www.powertoolsdirect.com/stanley ... heavy-duty) and then use brad / panel nails (2 per corner)?

Now this is going to be a really silly question but where exactly do the nails go? (A picture / photo would be immensely helpful as so far I haven't been able to find one on the net) I'm assuming they go in on the outer edges of the mitre (not the back) and preferably either the top / bottom edge of the frame so that they don't show?

I've read about the biscuits and pocket holes but I don't think my frames will be big enough and they both sound like a bit too much work for a cheap-skate hobbyist!

H i Kirsty,

I would be looking at something like this type of mitre vice:

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/product/CAST-I ... 458,0.aspx

Although there are various similar types available, like in your link above.

The nail or pin hole is pre drilled (I use a dremel), the position of the nail will depend on the profile, but usually two. The nail goes through one side (at right angles to the outer edge) and into the second piece of moulding (parallel with it).

You're right, a picture or video would help, I am sure some one has one...

A good book to get:

Picture Framing: A Practical Guide To All Aspects Of The Art And Craft.

by Pete Bingham.




Does what in says on the can.

Hi Kirsty,

In my early days i used the Logan Studio Joiner to great effect and at under £100 not bad for an underpinner. I believe it still comes with a bag of assorted size V nails.

Regards,

Graham

Hello Kirsty,

I would say it depends on what type of wood you want to work with. If you’re joining obeche or pine, both being softwood, then you can certainly use the hand pinners with good results. Also, if you keep to basic flat profiles, it will be much easier to use the hand joiners.

In the past, I’ve used the Logan Studio Joiner, Logan Pro Hand Saw and a Mitre Trimmer all with good results. All are available here:
http://www.diyframing.com/page.cfm/cont ... ing-Tools/
The Studio Joiner is slow to use as you have to put each V-nail in one at a time but the results are fine with flat profile softwoods.

You say you’ve got use of an electric mitre saw, having never used one I’m not sure how fine the cut is, but the hand Mitre Trimmer is worth getting for clean cut mitres. Unlike the Morso, it can only cut off a slither at a time, but it helps give a clean tight join to your corners. I’ve just dug out my old trimmer and cut an Ash hardwood moulding to demonstrate how good it can be. See my photos. With softwoods.. no problem. You can get the trimmer at here: http://www.diyframing.com/store_viewItem.cfm?ItemID=86
or here: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-mt ... rod858421/
If you want to work with hardwoods like Ash and Oak then you will find the Studio Joiner hard work! Even my Morso doesn’t like Ash and Oak and I have to cut hardwoods with my hand mitre saw and then tidy up the mitres on the Morso . But the hand mitre trimmer can handle a slither of Ash and Oak no problem. To join hardwoods you will need to do it the traditional way as Prospero and Framemaker say. You will need the sort of vice/clamp that Framemaker suggests which is also available here: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod23688/

I use the clamps shown in my photos without a problem and they are only about £5 each from here: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-mi ... prod32231/
So long as you secure them to your bench they work fine for nailing corners. Although I use a foot operated underpinner, I sometimes still prefer to nail the corners of heavy hardwoods. I glue (wood glue) them with a Bessey Band Clamp http://www.axminster.co.uk/bessey-besse ... rod844202/ and leave for half a day or over night. I then clamp one corner at a time in the vice, using bits of scrap mountboard to protect the wood, and drill a pilot hole and then hammer the nails in. Use a nail punch or something similar to make sure the nail head is below the wood surface and then fill the holes with a good quality wood filler, sand and finish with wax etc.
The red dots show where to put your nails. If you put them in the top and bottom of your frame, then they are least visible. Putting them in the sides offers the best support for the frame but they are more visible. I like to put them in the sides and use a wood filler of the right colour and sand well for an invisible finish. You can also use wax fillers which come in many different wood colours, such as Liberon wax sticks.

Hope this is of some help. Happy framing

David - you are a STAR! Thank you so very much for those brilliant pictures - they've helped a helluva lot! Will get a mitre trimmer and some of those Axminster clamps. Those Liberon wax sticks are a great idea. Prospero - I've ordered that book too

Thanks everyone for all your replies and help - all greatly appreciated

and if anyone has a second hand mitre trimmer to sell... pls let me know