Keencut V's Logan

[Howey]

Hi. Can anyone explain the attributes between the Logan 855 Platinum Edge mountcutter against the Keencut Ultimat Gold. I've got the chance of both but don't know which one to get.
Thanks for any help.

[Roboframer]

Having watched the video here http://www.framerscorner.co.uk/uk/shop/ ... ter?cid=88 I quite like the look of that Logan.

The squaring arm is better than the Ultimat's - it's braced and it seems like the measuring scale goes right to the cutting bar, unlike the Ultimat. This would make reverse bevel cutting easier.

Magazine blade loading is another feauture I like, you could purchase spare magazines and heve them pre-set for different thicknesses of board.

It seems that this Logan has features from both the Ultimat and the Fletcher and I think it would be my choice.

[Howey]

That's what I thought, but everyone raves about, and i would think most use the Ultimat?

[Roboframer]

That's right, I've got two! It's been around a long time and is trusted, same in the USA with the Fletcher but I'd say there are far more UK framers using a Fletcher than US ones using a Keencut.

Might be an idea to wait until the Spring Fair - assuming both are being demo'd - so's you can get a feel for build quality.

[Not your average framer]

It's designed to use Logan blades. I doubt if you can fit other types of blades. I think that you will find that all Logan cutters are designed in such a way the ensure that they cannot be used with any other blades.

Logan blades are only available in one blade thickness and they do not offer a single edged blade option. Then there's the price for Logan blades to consider.

Having said all that, it is a surprisingly up market product, when compared with the rest of the Logan range.

There's nothing like a recession to make manufacturers realise that the budget end of the market is a hard place to be during a bad recession, especially with so many better quality mountcutters on the secondhand market, as more framers switch to CMC's.

I bet some suppliers will be offering price deals on this, to tempt those who are not sure which mountcutter to buy!

[Roboframer]

That's a good point about the blades, Mark!

With a Fletcher or a Keencut you can use their own blades or Lion's (Personna) which all come with different options in the same size - seems the logan blades are deeper.

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/equipment-tool ... lades.aspx 100 Logan blades would cost you £27.60; 100 personna blades £11.35 - a no-brainer!

That's a shame because that machine does incorporate the best features of the Fletcher and the Keencut and they must have done that consciously - but they left out blade compatibility which is sort of shooting themselves in the foot because if they made them compatible to the other two makes and priced them right too they'd be selling them to users of all three machines and if they didn't want to produce a thicker/single sided blade yet, they'd not be putting off potential buyers that had a use for them.

So now I think the Keencut would be my choice!!

Unless it actually would take a Personna/Keencut/Fletcher blade. Ask them - and if the answer is 'no' and that answer swings it - tell them; might make them think.

It's like when I upgraded to a pneumatic point driver, the manual ones I'd always used were Fletchers and when one packed in on me I found the new model would only take their points, which are the most expensive ones and the same applied to their pneumatic gun. So I bought an Omer which doesn't give a stuff whose points you use!


BTW - not wanting to get anyone started or anything but THIS is the sort of info I would like to see coming from a trade organisation!

[Howey]

Thanks for your comments everyone. The point about the blades is a good one but, if you purchased a Rolls Royce would you then worry about the price of petrol?
I've studied and tried both and I must say that I think that the Logan is a better built machine, do I reject it because of future running costs?

[Roboframer]

Not necessarily, my CMC blades are 50p each! But like Mark says, there's only one type of blade at the moment, maybe in time they'll develop others and maybe also the magazine can be adapted to take other blades or maybe it already can???

[Keith Hewitt]

BTW - not wanting to get anyone started or anything but THIS is the sort of info I would like to see coming from a trade organisation!

Robo are you serious or just yanking our legs?

No way can a TO ( trade organisation) be expected to give their views and opinions on a forum about the pros and cons of mount cutters. Thats a sure fire way to get a load of grief from various manufacturers, and also framers who may disagree with your opinions.

A forum like this is the perfect place for any individual to say what they think. My own 2 penny worth would be what I have heard on my travels

Logan - OK for the amatuer artist, and dabbling newbie. some machines are inaccurate by about 2mm.

Keencut - Fletcher, Valiani Astra, perfect for small / medium framers.

CMC - OK for long runs, bigger framers, or framers wanting to do some fancy windows.

Where does Longridge fit in? I know they are loved by photographers, because of the accuracy, and also use by left handers

Now I know 50% will roughly agree with me and another 50% will be posting their comments to tell me I'm balking rollocks! But if that had been posted by a TO .................... I dread to think

[Roboframer]

Who said anything about giving info on a forum?

[Howey]

I'm sorry I seem to have upset some people. I only wanted ideas from people who use the kit day to day, not wind people up!!
Sorry I asked!

[Roboframer]

Who's upset? I'm not and I don't think Keith is

[penfold]

I don't think Robo was aiming at the mount cutter but more to the point that the Omer gun was a sort of kalasnikov of point guns *fires anything) I might be wrong, but He'll probably put me right!

[Roboframer]

I wasn't aiming at the gun or the cutter - just saying it would be nice if we had a trade organistion that tested new products, pitted them against each other even, and published the results to its members. Also, if they had standards for things like mount board (they do) then why not tell members which boards fit in to those standards from highest (exceeds the standards the most) to lowest (just about scrapes in) instead of members having to find out for themselves.

[Not your average framer]

For what it's worth I have two Keencut Ultimats. One is an Ultimat gold, the other is the original Ultimat and at various times I have owned, or used just about every other mountcutter on the market.

I don't own one, but if I was buying a new manual mountcutter and money was not an issue, the my first choice would be between the Valiani Astra, or the Bainbridge Avantage Pro. In terms of sheer precision of cut these two are awesome!

After these first two then I would say that it would be between the Keencut Ultimat Gold, or the latest Fletcher cutter. Personally I would go for the Ultimat, but mostly because I don't like the idea of having to keep cleaning those little wheels on the cutting head.

The quality and build standard of all four moutcutters are superb. I would not consider buying anything else on the strength of watching a Youtube demo. You really do need to see and try it before spending that kind of money.

[Roboframer]

He has!

I've studied and tried both and I must say that I think that the Logan is a better built machine,

[Not your average framer]

He has!

I missed that!

BTW, I've just had another look at the demo video on my home computer which has sound (unlike the shop computer which does not). A second look highligthed a few things which I had missed before!

One of these is the anti-hooking adjustment. That's a really clever idea!

I also noticed that the two parts of the start of cut stop appear to couple together with a magnet. I like that too!

Having had a second and more careful look at the video, I have to say that it's an impressive mountcutter. If the quality and build standard is good, Keencut and Fletcher may have some serious competition!

[AllFramed]

I can concur with Keith above. I started with a Logan and cut many a mount with it. However on larger mounts I began to think the artwork was parallelogram rather than square sometimes. Then discovered all was not square with the cutter, the bigger the mount, the worse the error!

Now have an Ultimat Gold (used) and all is square.

[Not your average framer]

Don't forget if you are after something really good for the best possible price. There are always secondhand Keencut Ultimat Golds available if you look out for them.

Obviously it may take a while before there is a secondhand market for the new Logans, so the only option for the Logan is to buy a new one.

I got both of my Ultimats secondhand and for well under half the new price of the new Logan, which would save you a decent bit of cash to buy something else you may also be needing.

Just a thought!

[Roboframer]

Blades are 100 for £20 in the link (framers corner) I posted, which is better.

There doesn't seem to be a 60" version of this machine ..... yet?