Buckled Watercolours

[Grandsire]

I do quite a bit of framing for a local botanical artist. These pictures are original watercolours and some of them take many hours to complete due to the fine detail; size-wise they can be up to 350 x 500mm. One problem that I frequently encounter is that the paper buckles and bends where there has been a lot of paint applied, and this can be impossible to disguise, particularly where the picture is in a position the light source is from the side. As an 'enthusiastic amateur' I want to get as near to perfection as possible - particularly in view of the time that goes into producing these paintings. Are there any 'tips of the trade' to get round this problem? By the way, I frame these paintings with a double mount and 2mm MDF backing.

[John]

Hi Grandsire,

Welcome to the forum.

I always urge our customers to have their watercolours framed just as they are. A little bit of cockling on an original work does not detract from its value and helps to confirm that the work is, in fact, original.

If the piece is suspended from the top within the frame it will gradually flatten itself over the years as the bottom is pulled down under its own weight.

[norymags]

Grandsire,

You may have to dry mount the Artist`s work with his or her permission of course, otherwise you cant adjust the cockle ( thats the buckle or bends).

This involves a technique in which you adhere the work onto a backing board, usually card or mount board and heat seal the two together using dry mount tissue and a Hot Press.

This process is not normally used especially if the work is valuable and I repeat you have to have the artists complete permission.

There is another type of self adhesive backing board but that is for another day there`s no way I would advise you to use this as an alternative.

The fact that you double mount and mdf back them bears no final finishing to the work either.

Give us some feedback and others on the forum will indeed give their feedback too, because my opinion is not always the correct one, only an opinion...Norrie

[Grandsire]

I have discussed the possibilty of dry mounting with the artist and she might be prepared to consider it for badly affected paintings. I did once experiment with one of my wife's watercolours that was buckled (though not valuable!). I lightly sprayed the reverse side with water then placed it between 2 sheets of blotting paper and put it in a bookbinding press for a couple of days. This seemed to achieve quite a bit of improvement, and I wondered if it was a technique anyone else had tried. Having said that, the advice I've been given here is in line with what I have been doing to date, and I'm loath to take risks with what is after all someone else's property. I'll continue to err on the side of caution and leave well alone! Thank you for your help.

[Roboframer]

Welcome to the forum Gransire!

Firstly, when you say you frame these with a double mount and MDF backing - is that MDF backing in contact with the artwork, or do you use an undermount - an 'acid free' barrier between the artwork and the MDF?

Secondly, of what quality are the mounts you are using?

PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE!!

If work comes to you cockled, the artist does not know what s/he is doing, or, should I say, is not aware of what weights of paper need stretching or not, then it's up to you to decide whether to make good of a bad job somehow or leave the artist's ignorance apparent for all to see. but will future viewers realise the artist's ignorance or blame the framer?

Heavy papers may not need stretching - but if copious amounts of water are used in the painting, esp on lighter papers, then stretching is advised. This is done by taping (and maybe pinning as well) the paper down to thick wooden board and soaking it, it dries drum-skin-tight and the artist can do what s/he likes with it, regarding amount of water applied - within reason, then, when it dries, it remains drumskin tight, and FLAT!!

It's not your fault it's cockled - it's the artist's!

Hingeing correctly will NOT always cure the problem - it may be cockled very badly and it may be cockled left to right and not top to bottom. Or both!

Anyway, if you are going to solve the problem you want it looking good when it leaves you - and not with some vague idea that in time it will flatten because you have hinged it correctly. A piece of paper 350 x 500mm weighs bugger all and the chances are that it will stay cockled, or, depending on what conditions it is hung in, maybe even get worse!

Sure there are methods of flattening work - dampened blotting paper between glass etc etc, but does the customer want to pay for that?

I'd sub the work out to a restorer - THEN they would pay!

Dry mounting? Uh-oh! MINEFIELD of a subject and I'm loathe to give any advice there at all*. But what I would say is, that if you ARE backing the work with MDF - sod it - why not!

If what you add is going to WRECK it - why not have it look nice whilst it is being wrecked?

Use an archival undermount

Don't dry mount originals*

Cockling is due to bad practice by the artist - don't cure it with more bad framing practice.

It is good that you can have 'discussions' with the artist - have some more that end up in him/her producing FLAT artwork - it's easy! ....



* Artcare restore could be a solution - but not for valuable stuff - not things that need TRUE conservation framing, but if flat is important and you have consent from the artist - it's a good solution - offers REVERSIBLE protection.

[Lemon_Drop]

I dont this a vacuum press or hardbed press is any place to put an origional work of art. Its a job I would pass on even with the consent of the artist. I have set my standard of framing at a level im happy with, and drymounting watercolours or any art work falls below that level.

[Roboframer]

Absolutely Lemon Drop - and as I said - DON'T DRYMOUNT ORIGINALS.....


......BUT ..... BUT!!

Drymounting SOME originals on to reversible hi-tech stuff is better than correctly hingeing to FREAKIN' MDF!!!

They will last longer whilst being flat and FLAT is the aim of the game here.

But I'd add that it does not sound as if we are talking art of any value here, be it now or future - not that I am anyone to judge - and that is another story - who the F are we to judge???

Are we qualified critics and valuers?

BOLOX are we!

But we do have a wealth of supply and info - trouble is - it ain't being used - not by the majority in this country anyway and the advice given here is testament to that.

MDF as far as I am concerned, has as much place in my workshop as masking tape. But there are still those that freely admit to using CARPET TAPE for needlework here.

MOVE ON!

[WelshFramer]

Artists are a real PITA. The best thing is to suggest they they start stretching the paper before they use it. It's easy and it doesn't take long -- just spray with water and tape it down all round to a board. Leave it to try and leave it taped to the board while painting.

I frame for one artist who does that and her work is always totally flat.

Another artist I work for refuses to do that (says she hasn't got the time). I have sometimes resorted to spraying the back of her work with water and drying it between sheets of blotting paper and glass. It works fine but can spread the colours a little. In her case it doesn't matter as frequently her style of painting is to splodge lots of water and paint all over the place.

The best is to tell the artist to prepare the materials properly or you'll have to charge double to deal with the problems.

[osgood]

MDF as far as I am concerned, has as much place in my workshop as masking tape.

I'm with you John!
MDF is very bad.
The criteria that some people use in selecting a product for backing is that it be available in sheet form and in selecting a hinging tape is that it be "sticky" when new.

There are better alternatives for backing even for temporary framing!
Some say that "masking tape" (and other tapes) are less expensive than proper hinging materials, but this is a crock because very little is used on each item anyway.

I think that the use of these products is prevalent with people new to the industry and people who frame their own stuff and I imagine this will always be the case because there will always be people who get into the industry with almost no knowledge to start with. Some learn quickly and some never learn, no matter how hard we try to teach them.

Artists - hmmmmm, many artists are extremely cheap and don't care about the quality of the framing on their artwork.

[John]

Many artists when they first come to us are extremely cautious about overspending on framing.

We always take a lot of time with them, discussing their work and how it can be best presented. If they really are skint and can't afford us we are happy to work with their cheap readymades bought elsewhere, cutting mounts and advising on colours to show their work to best advantage. We make it clear that we are here to help them and that there might be a better way to frame than the way they first thought. We show them just how good their work could look when given the right treatment and try to get them to stretch their budget, if even for a single piece.

It is all done in a gentle way and it may take several return visits before they come to appreciate that we are totally on their side, and that we want to do all we can to preserve and enhance their art.

Over the years we have built a great rapport with many artists, and have seen quite a few achieve a level of success where they no longer have to worry about the cost of a frame.

[Roboframer]

We used to 'talent spot' at local art shows and have had good and bad experiences.

We want local scenes plus pretty much anything else that will sell - traditional, contemporary, even abstract.

We'd offer a simple deal - establish yourself with us - give us the artwork only - no mounts and definitely no frames - we mount and frame it - no cost to you - we establish a price YOUR price - what you want after framing, commision and VAT (No VAT on sale or return goods - only charge VAT on the commission - did you know that?)

Pretty simple really - paint your picture then just wait for a phone call .....

THEN ... if your work sells well with us we will return the favour to you - we wil frame your work on a sale or return basis for exhibition elsewhere -knowing that what does not sell - we may well sell after the exhibition PLUS what you DO sell - take 33% commission off the frame - as we add that amount to 'your price' here. Plus we know the artist can produce more work, of local scenes (our village eg) the same sizes that can replace artowrk in unsold items if we feel the subject is not for us.

This gives the artists the option of either making that 33% or passing it on - but also puts their work in a league of its own regards presentation - the framing knocks spots off what the public normally see at these shows - CRAP basically!

Well we have had artists take us up on the offer - very good artists, they have given us superb work - say 8 pieces - we have sold 4, they have taken the other 4 to exhibit - we've gone to see the exhibition to find them selling the pieces for far less than we were - why?

"Oh - this is a charity do - I don't feel I can ask the same here - you'll get the same for your frame - but I dropped my asking price by 50%"

NEXT!

That just makes it look as if we are charging over the odds - the artist's price - what s/he ends up with should always be the same no matter where they are exhibiting - all that should affect the final ticket price should be framing, VAT, (or the lack of it) and commission.

But there have been success stories too.

[Grandsire]

If I may rejoin the discussion! Picking up on a couple of comments made on the subject of MDF backing. it seems this material is not considered acceptable by some framers, but no specific reasons were given - is it pH for example? (By the way, I always put a piece of 'waste' mountboard between the artwork and the MDF backing.) Secondly, what are considered suitable backing materials?

The advice on prestretching the paper before painting was most helpful and will be passed on to my artist forthwith.

[JFeig]

it is both the Ph - approx 5.5 - the internal chemicals of wood - and the ureaformaldehyde adhesive used to make the board.

[Merlin]

Hi Grandsire and welcome
We always use Corri Corr or Art Core - same board just different names.

Being in Cornwall we use the Mk3 version, which has a waterproof barrier on the outside.

Unfortunately with this barrier, the 'licky sticky' brown tape will not stick to it, so we use the brown self adhesive tape from LIONs.

I know a lot of people will draw a sharp intake of breath at that, however, it gives a very good finish and goes nowhere near the art. Even after 10 years the tape is still stuck and in good condition. It is easily removed by the gentle use of a heat gun to soften the adhesive.

[WelshFramer]

I was taught to use MDF on the framing courses I did for backing and building up box frames but gave up using it for 4 reasons:

It's a health hazard -- the dust is carcinogenic;

The dust gets everywhere and even a dust extraction system (I have two) won't get rid of all of it;

It's not as easy to use as Art-Bak;

It's acid and the formaldehyde off-gasses.


I do have MDF tops to all the benches in the workshop but they've been treated with Osmo oil (top and bottom) so they should at least be safe to work with.

[WelshFramer]

Being in Cornwall we use the Mk3 version, which has a waterproof barrier on the outside.

Is that the stuff that's white on one side?

[Merlin]

Hi Mike
No, the board we use is coloured brown throughout. Corrugated in the middle.
Corri-Cor Mk3 has the waterproof barrier on one side and is shiny.

The other board Art-bak is basically the same.