The Framers Forum

Had been feeling pleased with myself that I wasn't having much of a problem with dust getting under glass - what's all the fuss about, I asked myself! Turns out all the dust was waiting for me to try my hand at hand finishing frames ...

Does anyone have any tips on dealing with this? I try to put on some wax (liming in this case) and dust gets stuck in it I try spray painting my frame, dust gets stuck in it How can I prevent this??? Please don't say 'dust free environment' - I work from home, not a hermetically sealed lab in a dyson factory

Thanks as always
Calico

ps. am also in need of tips on how to get an even finish when using the brush to put the paint on - I'm using artists acrylic, and am really struggling to eliminate brush marks. Help!!!

Brush marks = hand finished

No brush marks = factory finish

I would not bother with spray painting unless you have a dedicated spray booth with fume/dust extraction

How are you doing your wax/liming? If you are using wire wool the that is probably the source.

Hi Calico,

There's quite a few questions in your post, so I'll try and answer them one by one.[/quote]

CalicoFraming wrote:I try to put on some wax (liming in this case) and dust gets stuck in it.

Liming wax is quite sticky, until all the solvent in the wax has fully evapourated.

CalicoFraming wrote:I try spray painting my frame, dust gets stuck in it. How can I prevent this?

Most of us have to learn to cope with the dust problem, I use fairly thick matt paints which are much less sticky when dry and if a bit of dust gets in the paint is also much less likely to show.

CalicoFraming wrote:also in need of tips on how to get an even finish when using the brush to put the paint on - I'm using artists acrylic, and am really struggling to eliminate brush marks. Help!!!

I assume that the term "artists acrylics" which you are using does not specifically refer to artist quality acrylic paints, but also includes some of the cheaper acrylic paints which are sold for artists. Some of these are still a bit sticky after they have dried. They also are a rather expensive way of buying paint for hand finishing.

I prefer to mix a good quality household acrylic emulsion paint with a good quality chalky emulsion to get a reasonably thick durable matt paint. A good starting point would be Craig & Rose 1829 acrylic eggshell emulsion mixed with Craig & Rose chalky emulsion. This is just one possibility of many as there are many paints to choose from. I don't recomment Farrow and ball, because their paints tend to be to thin to stipple and create texture with.

Smaller brushes, lightly loaded will help you not to apply excess paint and finely stippling the paint will help avoid unprofessional looking brush marks. As always, we all get better with practice and experience!

thanks heaps for this!

Can I ask what sort of brushes people are using (beyond 'small')?

Thanks so much
Calico

For laying on flat paint I use Harris synthetic brushes. They are nice and springy. Don't buy the multipacks from DIY sheds. The smaller sizes are more useful and you end up with lots of big brushes you never use much.

For stipling and gilding get cheap soft hair brushes from the local pound shop. Pack of 10 for a pound. There is no need to buy expensive brushes for this job. They get knackered very quickly, but at 10p each WTH?

A few fine artists brushes are useful. I always have plenty of these that are to worn out for art. Simonart series 11 and 13 sable/ester are good.


Dust? Never had a problem. Depends on what effect you are aiming at, but on antique-type finishes it is actually desirable. I even buy little packets of it to apply to frames. (Rottenstone)

Brushmarks can be your friend. If you can't eliminate then, work over the wet surface without applying more paint. You can produce an even pattern that is quite attractive. Some times when gilding a flat area I slap the wet surface with the side of the brush to raise a delicate filigree pattern that simulates the effect of 'leaf crinkles' when the gold is on. Stroking the paint across the grain of the wood also can look good.

If you want a smooth surface you should dilute the paint and apply more coats - rubbing back between coats.


It's the little flaws and oddities that can make a frame look classy. Adds that touch of humanity that factory finishes tend to lack. I think the term is a "lyrical inperfection".

Thanks Prospero, personally I'm with you - it's the imperfections that make a job interesting - just hoping my client agrees

Calico

Your're talking to a man here who buys perfectly good matt black moulding, spends ages rubbing the black off and priming it and paints it black again.

I never have brushstrokes on my frames.....

....I apply the paint using a cloth

Your're talking to a man here who buys perfectly good matt black moulding, spends ages rubbing the black off and priming it and paints it black again.

You're the sort of guy I like having conversations with

OK, so I've applied several coats of thin paint and rubbed back each time and I'm pretty pleased - it's almost perfectly smooth.

I am a bit stuck on the finishing touches - where the light glances off the surface you can see where I've rubbed with the wet & dry paper - is there any way of dealing with this?

Thanks so much - I'd be lost without this forum

Calico

Advice on sanding marks? Anyone...

Please please reply if you've got any tips on this - I'm trying to achieve an even smooth finish by painting and sanding back between coats, but every time I do the sanding it leaves marks - not necessarily scratches, more like shiny rub marks (if that makes sense) - how do I avoid/remedy this? I just need to get my frame painted and out the door! PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN!!

Calico

Bit hard to advise at this stage without actually seeing the job.

Can't you polish up the whole surface?

I don't know what finish your aiming for, but maybe the last coat should not be sanded? I think sanding or polishing the surface is always going to change the look.

May be finish off with some clear wax?

If you really can't tolerate brush marks and you don't have spraying equipment you might try one of these:

http://www.preval.co.uk/Preval+Sprayer/3/

either for your own mixed up paint or for a final varnish coat to even out sheen.

prospero wrote:Bit hard to advise at this stage without actually seeing the job.

Can't you polish up the whole surface?

Hi Prospero

What do you suggest for polishing - just buffing with a soft cloth? I don't mind whether the final finish is matt satin or gloss, just want it even and consistent without marks

Also, further to your previous suggestion, should I progressively dilute the paint with water so the final coat has very few brush marks and requires no sanding?

I woudn't mind waxing it and did experiment but doesn't disguise the marks where I've been rubbing, just makes it glassy

Sorry to be thick about all this!

Calico

Think maybe you are trying to achieve a perfect flat finish, which to be honest is a lot of work. I wouldn't even contemplate it. It's one situation where hand-finishing isn't the best way. But don't let me put you off.....

Try sanding with a fine grit. This should show up any 'niggly' bits. Give it another coat of paint. I would always recommend finishing off paint with a coat of wax and a good buffing. Without it, the paint surface will fingermark quite easily.


I try to work with the materials and build up a texture, whether it be very subtle or very obvious. This way you have control. You can also fix accidental dings more easily.

I was assembling a frame earlier. Ash with a couple of coats of black acrylic+waxing. It looked great until I slid it across the bench right onto a loose screw which shouldn't have been there. Scratched it quite badly. But a bit of sanding and a dab of paint fixed it. You can still see a faint mark but it blends into the woodgrain. If I had filled the grain and managed to get an immaculately flat finish, I would have basically had to start from scratch (no pun...).

[quote="prospero"] Think maybe you are trying to achieve a perfect flat finish, which to be honest is a lot of work. I wouldn't even contemplate it. It's one situation where hand-finishing isn't the best way. But don't let me put you off.....

quote]

Yes, I'm aware that I'm on a hiding to nothing with this job. It's come about because the moulding I originally bought, which was a wide, flat matt finish gesso number in white, chipped badly on the Morso, and so ensued a farcical process of filling, buffing, stripping, sanding, waxing, stripping, painting, stripping... well, you get the idea. I'm perservering because it's quite a high value job and it's a new customer, and also it's a frame for a poster which I think really needs to look slick and modern rather than rustic. Also I'm buggered if I'm going to let it defeat me so I'm ploughing on, although I can't help thinking it's now just become a project on which to build my knowledge and skills, and may never reach the customer!

I get the theory - evenly applied paint, sanded back with progressively fine paper between coats. I'm down to the wet and dry paper now and I'm not unhappy with the smoothness of the finish, the problem is rather that with the light reflecting of the surface at a certain angle it's very obvious where I've been rubbing back.

Anyway, thanks for the advice - it looks like there'll either have to be a compromise on the finish, or the customer gets an entirely different frame.

Calico

You have my sympathy.

Flat white is just about the worst thing to work on.

Not a lot of use now, but some gessoed moulding will take cellulose paint very well. The solvent will etch itself into the surface so you just have to de-grease it. No sanding needed! Doesn't work on all finishes - you have to test a bit first. But if it does stick you have a very hard finish.

A few cans of white car paint from Halfords should do it. The beauty is, you can make good any chips on the corners with car body filler first and neatly radius the corners.

I used to spray up 1/2" black cushion with metallic car paints. Looks great.