The Framers Forum

Hi all,

I'm currently working from home but need to get a workshop. Somewhere say 300 sq.ft, preferably easy-in, easy-out (no long lease commitments). Would be happy to share space, I think (happy to be corrected on this). Could be in city centre, could be in countryside.

Any suggestions on where to look?

Thanks,
Calico

If you don't mind sharing how about taking out a small advert. May be someone out there looking to reduce their overheads.

The problem with sharing workshop space could be insurance. I had to pull out of a shared workshop because of that as I couldn't get insurance. Its not only your content insurance but the buildings insurance could be a problem.

I too currently work from home and at some point will need to get a workshop but what would I expect to be paying? How much does everyone else pay - per sq ft / m?

What extras are there to be aware of etc, rates etc?

Big question is: what do you do in 6 months time when you have grown out of your shared space?

If you are building up a clientele then you wont want to move again.

Other points regarding insurance are very valid as is the business you are sharing with. They may have onerous conditions that are not insurable.

I would always go solo if you can.

If you are not far from countryside then have a look at 'barn' workshop (or possibly office) type places. For starting up you can get away with something about the size of a 20' shipping container (20'x7' = 140 sq ft). Rents will depend on location etc but should be manageable at that size. It's when you want a shop front on the high street that they become crazy.
Once you start actively looking you will be surprised how many options there are out there, check on line, local agents etc and keep your eyes constantly on the look out while you're driving around, and before you know it.......there it is...

Vince442 wrote:How much does everyone else pay - per sq ft / m?

What extras are there to be aware of etc, rates etc?

I always recon that you end up paying double what you price per sq ft is by the time you have paid rates water rates insurance and if you are unlucky service charge etc.

Be careful of paying for electricity etc through the landlord as they can charge what they want. I know of one of my customers who's electricity was divided between the tenets of the building so this meant a fabrication company with welding gear etc payed the same rate for electricity per sq ft as a guy with a computer in an office not very fair. My first landlord charged me the rates based on the current rate bill but then claimed small business relief on my behalf without giving me a refund.

I would also be wary of very loose/flexible arrangements. You may have little or no protection and if the landlord decides he doesn't want you any more then not only have you got to find somewhere new quickly but all that time and investment fitting out the workshop is lost.

Yes I thought the extras would add up but didn't realise it would come to double. My prices might have to go up!

That is my personal experience.

Can I ask a follow up question to this?

My business is chiefly in London. I can afford workspace in the East of the city, but most of my customers live in the West. Ideally I'd like customers to come to me at the workshop, rather than spend a lot of time visiting them. In your experience, will people go out of their way to visit their favoured framer?

I don't know, do people travel from west to east london anyway? Depends on how loyal your customers are as well.

Your costs will depend on your business model. If you don't need a high street presence then your workshop will be far cheaper from a rent and rates point of view. Depending on the area you live in most businesses (apart from mine as I have 2 shops ) seem to be currently claiming small business rate relief. But, like all good things, this will come to an end and should be factored in.
Many moons ago I moved from a workshop which didn't really have any street frontage to a high stret shop and our turnover dobuled in the first year . However my costs grew significantly as well.

We attract customers from about a 20 mile radius but we are in a rural area.

CalicoFraming wrote:Can I ask a follow up question to this?

My business is chiefly in London. I can afford workspace in the East of the city, but most of my customers live in the West. Ideally I'd like customers to come to me at the workshop, rather than spend a lot of time visiting them. In your experience, will people go out of their way to visit their favoured framer?

Is there possibly some snob value here east london Vs west London? Yes people will go out of their way to visit a faviured framer. I have customers with a guesthouse in Germany who bring me work on their visits home to see their parents.

Starter units seem popular now days. Often these are larger premises divided into smaller units and on flexible terms.

We have local enterprise units that offer easy in and easy out terms. Is there anything like that near where you want to locate?

Trouble is a lot of these "Enterprise Units" are just office space. It seems the "powers that be" have forgotten some people actually make or trade in a physical product rather than sit in front of a computer all day "optimising search engines" or telling people how to "connect with social media".

The point about choice of premises being dependent on the business model is well made. I wonder what people think about this. As I say, I expect to be selling to customers in London where I have connections that I hope will get me started. So do I try to embed myself locally, perhaps with a shop front? Or maybe just a workshop but within my chosen catchment? Or could I base myself further afield on the basis that people would go out of their way to travel (West to East London, for example) and/or I could visit them and/or find a cost-effective way to deliver product to them. Or do I just continue working from home until I properly reach capacity?

It would be great to hear what people think about the different business models for framers.

Thanks
Calico

ps. yes there probably is a bit of a snob issue about West and East London, but it's mostly just that it's quite a distance to travel and until they build cross-rail, an awkward journey to boot

Personally I would stay in west London if that is where your client base is. Workshop or shop front difficult one, but in the last 8 years i Have been in workshops hidden away as I don't go looking for private clients but they find me

I'm in a slightly different situation down here in Dorset but I would be slightly cautious about moving to East London if your main customers are in West London. I really don't know how London works though . Some people travel quite a long way to come to me, but the density of people and framers down here is much lower .
I think your business plan/marketing plan needs to dictate where you end up. I'm in a converted milking shed because of low rent, no business rates and its between several 'arty' and fairly wealthy towns. It covers low costs with a minimum mileage for my target market.
I suppose if you're needing to keep costs down but you need more space then you may have limited choice with where you move to. In my fairly limited experience people seem to be quite loyal to their framer, so they may well go with you wherever you go.

Well my gut feeling is that people living in Kensington (posh West London) aren't going to travel to Stratford (not so posh East London) for a frame. First up, I'm sure there are plenty of framers closer at hand to choose from, and secondly getting across London is ghastly and time consuming. I wouldn't do it if i could help it! So if I weren't on the doorstep (or thereabouts) in West London, I think it would fall to me to make house calls and deliveries, which seems like a terrible drain on time and resources. If someone comes to my workshop, it's 15 mins maybe out of my working day to make a sale. When they collect, another 5 mins. If I have to travel to them it's hours.

how do people deal with the home visit / delivery thing? Does anyone use couriers or the such like? Or is it to be avoided altogether?

I would avoid as it means extra packing etc and obviously extra cost.