Sticky problem

[Not your average framer]

Hi,

A customer wants me to copy a moulding which is no longer available. There is a way of putting together something which looks fairly close by gluing together various different mouldings. Some are wide enough to glue and pin, some are not only too thin to pin without splitting, but also I can't think of any workable way of clamping them in place while the glue dries.

There is a double sided tape used in the automotive and aerospace industries which is supposed to be permanent (like forever) and it will stick wood too. Somehow, not having such confidence in self adhesives for long term use, I can't quite convince myself that this is a good idea.

Does anyone know of a good wood glue with enough initial grab to hold everything in place while the glue sets?
Thanks,
Mark

[Roboframer]

Here's a Vice Clamp from Lion. Also TUFLOC 2 part glue Also from Lion - info on application not on their website but in their catalogue.

From what I recall though it 'locks' pretty much on contact - not much of a second chance!

There's also good old Evostick contact adhesive - nasty stuff!

This reminds me - I received an order from Lion today and there was no 'Lion Bar' in it - Martin - what have you to say about this?

[markw]

not sure of a suitable glue but I can recommend a way of holding the profiles in place - glue - fix in place and then use handywrap - its that clingfilm stuff - i use it to protect frame edges - bundle stuff together etc. Just wrap it around nice and tight and it will hold a constant pressure until the glue has set.

[Roboframer]

Some are wide enough to glue and pin, some are not only too thin to pin without splitting, but also I can't think of any workable way of clamping them in place while the glue dries.

When I use slips, (or fillets) for a sight edge I lay a bead of glue around the frame rebate, fit the slip in place - and either put the glass in place over the slip with some weights until the glue sets or hold it in with framer's points until it sets.

[Not your average framer]

Unfortunately the problem is that the thin sections I want to glue in place are to be glued into a recessed section on another moulding and not only stretchwrap will not make contact in that position, but I need some way of removing the surplus glue before it sets.

[John]

Double sided tape at intervals with glue in the gaps between.

[mick11]

In those type of situations I have used small spots of super glue to hold the parts together whilst a more reliable glue like PVA sets. Superglue also sets off PVA glues very quickly if they come into contact with each other.

[Roboframer]

Unfortunately the problem is that the thin sections I want to glue in place are to be glued into a recessed section on another moulding and not only stretchwrap will not make contact in that position, but I need some way of removing the surplus glue before it sets.

Okay ...... how about glueing the lot together and THEN chopping?

[Not your average framer]

In those type of situations I have used small spots of super glue to hold the parts together whilst a more reliable glue like PVA sets. Superglue also sets off PVA glues very quickly if they come into contact with each other.

Thanks Mick,

I didn't know that superglue sets off PVA very quickly, but thinking about it, I can see a connection. Superglues are Cyanoacrylates and there are acrylic polymers in PVA too! There might be some interesting possibilties in this connection.

[Not your average framer]

Okay ...... how about glueing the lot together and THEN chopping?

That's the intention. I don't think it can be done otherwise. The thin sections will be glued to the front surface of a larger moulding, but raised portions on the other moulding mean that the thin section are glued to a recessed surface.

[Not your average framer]

Double sided tape at intervals with glue in the gaps between.

Thanks John,

I wondered about that one too! Has anyone ever tried it?

[Not your average framer]

Thanks Mick,

I didn't know that superglue sets off PVA very quickly, but thinking about it, I can see a connection. Superglues are Cyanoacrylates and there are acrylic polymers in PVA too! There might be some interesting possibilties in this connection.

I wonder if this means that using the Loctite spray activater on PVA would speed up the setting of the PVA. It sounds to good to be true, but if it is true, it could be very useful indeed.

[John]

Thanks John,

I wondered about that one too! Has anyone ever tried it?

I use this method often. It works a treat.

[Not your average framer]

I often use a very strong double sided tape which comes from Adams Industrial Packaging in Exeter. I think they get it specially made for them and it's a heavy coat weight hot melt acrylic on a PVC base film. I think their order number for this tape is 392.

You can't tear it, unlike tissue based tapes, but have to cut it. It comes in very handy for difficult jobs, like fixing wood spacers, box framing, etc. It's not reversible and the surface of the wood comes off with the tape if you try to remove it.

It's not the automotive and aerospace tape I mentioned, I think that may come from the TRW aerospace group. That's the stuff used for fixing external body trim to car bodies, you need a blowlamp to get that stuff off!

[kev@frames]

not sure of a suitable glue but I can recommend a way of holding the profiles in place - glue - fix in place and then use handywrap - its that clingfilm stuff - i use it to protect frame edges - bundle stuff together etc. Just wrap it around nice and tight and it will hold a constant pressure until the glue has set.

genuius!!! what a tip!

[osgood]

Mark,
Make sure you charge the customer a fortune for this job. It is bound to be time consuming.
Pressure sensitive double sided tapes are probably not very well suited to this purpose.
PVA would be excellent and if you can clamp it together using some of the methods suggested, it will stay together indefinitely.

[markw]

It looks to me as if you have the answer but I will throw in one more and that is to create a former so that you can clamp the whole lot together - the advantage of doing this is that you can use the former later to create a shaped support for underpinning.

on complicated shapes this can be a real advantage enabling better joints where there might be a risk of the moulding moving.

[Not your average framer]

Thanks Mark,

I hadn't thought of making a former, but I think that's the missing bit of the puzzle. The thin strips are "L" shaped and some extra strips would give me a nice flat surface for clamping.

I'm still not happy about used double sided tape even in conjunction with the PVA, it's for one of our most important customers, who is always happy to pay the extra for having the best. I would never take the risk, so I think it must be PVA only.

Thanks to all,
Mark

[foxyframer]

All the above suggestions are great ideas, showing the superb degree of lateral thinking all framers must have to be successful in our trade. We have G-cramps and sash-cramps in the frameshop; essential simple equipment. Very important to have protective woodstrips for the back of the moulding as well as the rebate when cramping. We always use wood PVA and leave overnight to dry.