The Framers Forum

Hello All,
I have recently joined and really impressed to see all the framers helping others.
Im looking for a little help.
I have a customer that ordered 22 Nielsen aluminium frames for prints (1000mm x 705mm) that was going up in an office.

I ordered the frames, put them together and framed the prints up.

Unfortunately, the prints were of poor quality and were 'rippling' at the sides.

The customer wanted the cheapest way of framing hence I never suggested dry mounting the prints but I cant think of any other way of getting rid of the ripples (and unfortunately I only have a smaller hot press so these prints dont fit anyway)
Like I say, the prints are of poor quality but the customer says they are not prepared to pay to have them printed properly.

Does anyone have any advice for me?

Im close to getting fed up with the customer and would love to roll the pics back up and tell them to go elsewhere but i've already paid for the frames from Neilsen and dont want to be seen as a poor framer with a bad attitude.

All advice would be most welcome.

Thanks in Advance,

Ian

Hi and Welcome Ian.


A familiar tale. It's not so much the cheapness or otherwise of the prints. It would probably happen whatever the quality of the paper. But the fact is, If they aren't drymounted they are going to cockle. I think you may have inadvertently lead the customer to believe that they would be OK. You really should have warned him that this might happen. He has seemingly got the upper hand now. It's an easy pitfall. His problem has now become yours it seems.

I would have a talk with him and tell him the only cure is to have them dry-mounted. If your press isn't big enough, farm them out. Tell him you won't charge him for assembly/disassembly. If that doesn't mollify him, he will just have to live with the ripples. Don't for a moment entertain thoughts of refunding his cash. You have done the job quite satisfactorily up to the level he was prepared to pay for.

Thanks for your reply prospero. Much appreciated.

I was thinking that might be the case. I did have a similar problem in the past when using the self adhesive mount board when the print started to detach itself from the board (which is why I then treated myself to a hot press) so I told a printing company that use me that anything over a certain size has to be mounted before taken in for framing.
Obviously this was a different case as it was a potential big customer but wanted it done 'cheaply'
Unfortunately they havent paid for the work done as I had to invoice them first (bad error on my part but you always learn) so they are refusing to pay until the work has been rectified.
I was thinking about speaking to someone about getting them to do the dry mounting and just charging the customer what they will charge me but unsure on how much that will cost me? Any ideas on a price from framer to framer for this?
Thanks again,
Ian

The customer is a cheapskate, he got what he paid for! If he wants more, then he needs to spend more.

This might just be one of those times when you have to take the hit and get them dry mounted at your own cost.

If the customer is going to dig their heels in, and it sounds like they are on this occasion, then they won't pay up for anything more so demanding it probably isn't going to help you on this one. Unfortunately if you didn't have that full conversation with him at the beginning warning him that his determination on the cheapest option might cause this problem, then he will expect them to look fine at the price you quoted. We had a similar case ourselves a few years back and we dry mounted the lot at our cost to ensure the job looked good - we ended up with repeat business (which was charged for fully) and other recommendations off the back of it so sometimes it pays to just accept it and move on. As Prospero said, his problem has become your problem. We never made the mistake again and I'm sure you won't either.

Hope it all works out OK for you.

As they are cheap prints I would see if you can get them laminated to the backing board either using a hot press or jetmounter. That should keep the cost down and solve the problem.

I had a customer (a very picky one to say the least) a while back who wanted some photos close-framed in an ally moulding. I told him OK, but would have to dry-mount them to do this or they would go wavy. And I also told him that although the photos would stay flat, there most likely would be an overall orange-peel texture to the photos which would show more from an oblique angle. He went for dry-mount.

When he came to pick them up, he remarked that they were a bit orange-peely. I replied "Yes. I told you they would be." Nowhere to go then.

Fact is, the limiting factor in deploying your expertise is the item to be framed. And when it comes to budget, sometimes the cheaper the thing the more it can cost to frame.

I always tell the on a budget customer that ripples can occur due to the print being pinched at the edges and heat expansion working it's magic, also small amounts of condensation can form against the glass causing damage to the prints. If the customer is happy to continue I make a note on the order 'customer is aware of potential damage due to framing method requested ' of which the customer gets a copy.

This has come about from similar experiences to what you are having now.

There is no where for the cheap skate customer to go with a complaint.

In this instance I personally would dry mount them at my own cost, if I had not informed the customer of the potential hazards of framing in this method.
Reputation is everything and can be ruined by no fault of your own by vindictive people that don't get there own way.

I have recently refunded a lady the full cost of framing her batique, because when she got home, she found some flumbs insinde the frame and she had travelled a fair distance because of our reputation. She did not except that flumbs can travel in transit
and were probably not there when she collected it ( she inspected it before collection).

As we have less than 1 complaint per year ( average of 4000 jobs per year and rising)
I find it easier and more cost effective to offer the explanation of what has gone wrong and simply refund the customer.

Mind you twice it was my fault, I once accidentally cut a picture in half whilst trimming down another print, and I got a spec of water off my freshly washed Hanson a Russian canvas print which looked coated, but it desolved the print .

If the customer really wanted cheap then (here at least) a metal frame would not be the way to go, especially if it was on chop service.

I know I could cost this job in a wooden frame with dry mounting for less.

you are quite right even with a small mount , nelson frames are not cheap. I didn't really think about it before posting, but the I am very very drunk

I think we have all had problems with customers who ignore advise then complain "that it doesn't quite look they way they imagined it would and can you do it again in a different mount / frame". We rely on repeat business and reputation so on this occasion stand the loss but learn from it.
Interesting to see IFGL confesion on mistakes. any one else wrecked some thing brought in for framing. A friend of mine was admiring a water colour outside his workshop when a passing seagull did what seagulls do "splat" Come on own up.

ah jeez i wreck prints all the time, scratches, finger prints etc

the good thing is that most of them i print, so if i feck it up and just run another print

In my previous life (in sales) we had a saying . Pre handle the objection. That has stood me in very good stead.

Try and cover all the angles.