VISTA

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Tue 13 Feb, 2007 8:15 am

Looks Good but Oh Boy am I having problems.

Last December I upgraded my MOBO to ASUS M2N4-SLI with new AMD dual core chip.
Internet connection via BT using BT Voyager 105 ADSL Modem.
Running XP Service Pack 2.
No Problems

I decided to upgrade to VISTA Home Premium, but before I did I ran the upgrade advisor. No problems came to light, the prog gave me a go!

Installed VISTA (fortunately on a seperate HD). Tried to use the MOBO support CD. NOT COMPATIBLE. ASUS have no drivers for VISTA yet!!!!!

BT Modem also not compatible with VISTA, so need to get the BT Home Hub apparently - extra £90 odd.

I do have a Belkin ADSL router as well, so plugged that in. Not even recognised and I cannot even switch on the LAN within the Control Panel.

Be warned!!!!!!
Anybody else out there with problems on VISTA please?

Grumpy Merlin

Post by **John** » Tue 13 Feb, 2007 8:34 am

What a nightmare John. You have convinced me not to try to upgrade, I'll eventually upgrade by taking the easy option and buying a machine with Vista pre-installed.

I'm sure you have looked into this already, but perhaps Asus has a fix in the way of a bios update. Have a look here, where it mentions Vista drivers: - http://www.techspot.com/drivers/driver/ ... tion/7816/

markw · Post by **markw** » Tue 13 Feb, 2007 8:57 am

Following the press coverage of Vista before release the general advice seemed to be - remember what happened when they launched XP. The attitude seems to have changed with many of the computer mags saying how brilliant it is - no problems.

I seem to remember the same scenario with XP - the hype starts to overwhelm reality and everyone ignores the fact that upgrading a OS will have many compatibility problems unless you buy a completely new system.

Having lots of mixed age kit I shall learn from your experience and wait a while. I have also read that Vista is paranoid about security and keeps asking daft questions when you try and download.

Another question we should be asking - why are we charged more for Vista in the UK than the USA. The old convert dollars to pounds using the simple mathematical formulae - change the symbol from $ to £ shouldn't be accepted.

Caz755 · Post by **Caz755** » Tue 13 Feb, 2007 11:40 am

I'm running XP on both my home computers, and the one at work attached to the Valiani.....

I will not be upgrading to Vista any time soon, I really can do without compatibility problems, and I also remember the problems that arrose with the XP upgrade.

Also I use the future mat program at home, to draw and design stuff, therefore I would probably have to upgrade the comp at work so I could rule out dificulties between home and work machines.

I do not fancy trying to get the future mat program to run with Vista!!

I recently bought a pc for a friend which has Vista already installed, we have had to upgrade lots of drivers, just to get simple stuff like printers to work immediately.

Having experienced Vista, I can say, I'm quite happy with the performance of my XP, and I'll be sticking to it for the time being.

Plus its money I dont NEED to spend! hahaha.

And it would also mean I'd have to find out how to fix things, I know where I am with XP (usually up the proverbial creek without a paddle haha).

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Wed 14 Feb, 2007 1:48 am

we have 5 PCs at home and three in the shop, all on XP, and all on a VPN.

Had a disasterous time with vista (beta). I feel that the networking is not as solid as XP (Pro) with SP2. Vista did not integrate well with PCs running XP SP2 on a routered network, but OK if using a hub.

There is something amiss in the networking, specially if you have fixed Ip addresses (we use an entanet connecton with fixed IPs for each location - workshop x2, shop counter x1, home network. - we have one at the shop counter and two in the workshop, plus the alleged home office).

Vista, in its present form, is really not much more than a pretty makeover for XP as far as the average user or business user is concerned, it is resorce hungry and hogs RAM. |The beta version I had produced several ram leaks which could only be corrected with a third party utility (freeramxp) and at the end of the day it was an experience like going back to windows 98 with jellybean colours.

I reckon we will "evolve" into vista with machine upgrades if it happens to come as OEM, but certyainly no plans to switch from XP at present.

we have a vigor 2600 router for one LAN- and some other generic router (loosely based on the same chipset) for the other, I had problems with vista with network printing, VPN and several times lost the tcip stack in one computer or another, plus connectivity problems despite trying the latest router firmware (and betas specially rushed from taiwan). Also random connectivity problems always with one computer on the LAN losing conectivity for no apparent reason, which was unable to be restored without a cold restart.

Frontpage 2003 didn't like it, and also had major problems with file sharing (torrent) programmes, roland vinyl plotting programmes, Corel, and Dell printer drivers.... to name but a few.

It does appear that the router firmware has yet to catch up with the horrors in Vista.

imho they have just about got XP sorted, finally, so we will stick with that FTTB. Maybe a years worth of patches down the road it will be fine.

Like markw i have a lot of mixed kit, and no compatibility issued with the patched and matured XP.

some days I just effing hate microsoft.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Sun 18 Feb, 2007 4:34 pm

At long last have VISTA up and running. The updates are out there, it is just a matter of finding them.

BT were very slow and the new Home Hub does not hold the automatic IP address. So when the system is switched off then back on again it cannot find the IP address. You can get around that by manually inserting the IP's. Then it holds it.

MarkW
Vista Home Premium 32 bit OEM copy can be had for arount the £77 area, as long as you buy some hardware. I had to upgrade my Graphics board anyway to run two monitors for Pre-view (£30), so it was no problem. Otherwise you would be looking at £150 ish for VISTA. I know its only a saving of £40 in the end, but worth it.

Mike@GTP · Post by **Mike@GTP** » Sat 17 Mar, 2007 11:50 am

I have it installed on my new laptop, which I upgraded from XP. So far, I love it!

BIG MISTAKE. I had the AVG FREE antivirus program on XP and forgot to uninstall it before upgrading. If you upgrade, MAKE SURE you uninstall the a/v first

It took me nearly 10 hours to figure out how to get that removed after the fact. It was badly damaged and the operating system would not let me remove it - even in safe mode or with the administrator account. The solution involved changing over 100 registry entries.

Otherwise, I really like it!

Mike

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Sat 17 Mar, 2007 2:43 pm

Thankyou Mike
That is one reason why I was advised NOT to go down the Upgrade route.

If I had a problem in the future, it would mean Installing WIN98, then upgrading to WIN XP then upgrading to VISTA. What a pain in the proverbial that route would be. Each and every time.

As stated in the previous thread, I went down the route of getting a Full OEM version at roughly the same cost as an upgrade version.

Much easier to do a clean install anyway, as it does not 'carry over' any potential or hidden problems that have accumulated over time with 98 and XP.

Really happy with VISTA now on the home machine. The shop still runs XP.

markw · Post by **markw** » Sat 17 Mar, 2007 3:19 pm

Windows secrets had this article about Vista upgrades.

The secret is that the setup program in Vista's upgrade version will accept an installed copy of XP, W2K, or an unactivated copy of Vista itself as evidence of a previous installation.

This enables you to "clean install" an upgrade version of Vista to any formatted or unformatted hard drive, which is usually the preferred method when installing any new operating system. You must, in essence, install Vista twice to take advantage of this trick. But Vista installs much faster than XP, so it's quicker than installing XP followed by Vista to get the upgrade price.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Sat 17 Mar, 2007 10:18 pm

I would love to know the reasons that anyone would rush out and buy a new operating system that we all knew was going to be bloatware, resource hungry and many devices and software were going to have problems running on it?

Oh yeah and it was from Bill Greed's company - Microshaft???
I just don't get it!

Any takers?

Post by **John** » Sun 18 Mar, 2007 6:37 am

Ormond, whether we like it or not, Vista will become the major OS.

Since Vista will be on the next Windows machine we buy, by default, I can understand those who want to get to grips with it early.

Having said that, Windows 98 runs two of our four computers, and will do so until they expire. The other two came with XP pre-loaded, but they have been configured to have the look and feel of Win98.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Sun 18 Mar, 2007 6:52 am

John,

While WinXP will continue to do the work I am currently doing with it, I will continue to use it.
Even if I need to buy any new computers, which is not likely in the near future, I would need to be absolutely sure that it was vital to life itself to go to Vista.

Currently it has nothing to lure me!

I read recently that it cannot be installed on anything but the original computer. So what happens when after the warranty on a computer expires, it becomes necessary to purchase a new machine? You have to buy another new Vista!

Post by **John** » Sun 18 Mar, 2007 9:38 am

osgood wrote:Currently it has nothing to lure me!

Back in the Dos days, I'm sure I remember saying something similar about Windows.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Sun 18 Mar, 2007 10:56 am

I'm still using a Dos program for my pricing, invoicing etc. It's extremely reliable and versatile.

w00dward · Post by **w00dward** » Mon 19 Mar, 2007 9:56 am

One thing I would suggest would be to only upgrade now if you really need to.

XP is still going to be supported by Microsoft for another 3 - 4 years so unless you have that killer application which will not work on XP then hang fire.

Personally I'll probably upgrade once the first full service pack is out.

Professionally I'm not going to recommend upgrading my companies machines for another couple of years. There is simply no need.

I read a article on Vista which said the sweet spot for memory is 4gig!

This is because it preloads a lot of information into cache and even with a 2gig machine your going to see a lot of hard disk access just for this added 'feature'.

Another thing I would recommend would be to replace any ADSL modems you have with a ADSL router. A good ADSL router costs from £40. This is taking the job of firewalling your PC away from the PC to a dedicated hardware router which will also perform other security measures such as NAT (Network Address Translation). This makes it more difficult for a hacker to compromise your machine.

Feel free to drop me a note if you want any advice on setting up your routers correctly and or any other info.

Dermot · Post by **Dermot** » Mon 19 Mar, 2007 7:49 pm

For those of you that may be thinking about using the Vodafone 3G Broadband……it won’t work at present with VISTA….not till June/July…

My sister and her husband bought a new note book in Australia for their 4/5 month trip to this part of the world…..I organised the Vodafone 3G Broadband …for them…..it was easier to do it that way with all the needs for local utility bills and addresses….etc….and I will continue the contract when they go back….

Good job I had a new unused note book on XP lying around…..hooked the Vodafone 3G Broadband…..worked like a dream…..

Vodafone 3G Broadband is super not quite as fast as regular broadband but for anyone who moves around a lot…..it’s a dream

Dermot · Post by **Dermot** » Mon 19 Mar, 2007 8:51 pm

osgood wrote: I read recently that it cannot be installed on anything but the original computer. So what happens when after the warranty on a computer expires, it becomes necessary to purchase a new machine? You have to buy another new Vista!

NOT True.....

When you buy Microsoft software Licence OEM….for example VISTA…..from a computer vendor you buy the right to use this on the machine that it came with…..by machine Microsoft will accept that the chasse is the machine……..there is a wide spread debate in the computer industry as to where a licence sits on the machine….ie. Hard rive, Ram, Chasse, etc. etc there are so many areas of a computer that uses part of the licence that it is difficult for the computer industry to protect its “Intellectual Property Rights” …..and remember this is how they make their money….just like a framer makes his money from the intellectual skills they have learned….

There are those in the computer industry that subscribe to the thought that every component on a computer should have to pay to use the licence rather than just one licence for the whole computer….

Any way…it is not true that if your computer dies that Microsoft will not allow you to transfer you licence to a new computer…..it is not easy to do but they will accommodate those who are inclined to spent there valuable time transferring a licence to a new computer despite how little the OEM licence costs on a new replacement computer and please don’t give me the bit about the cost of a new computer in real terms computers now a days fall into the realms of that the cost effective way to upgrade is to buy new…

Microsoft will accommodate the transfer of an OEM licence despite the fact that it is such a licence OEM (Original Equipment Manufactured) which in my book means that if your original computer dies so does the licence with it……Microsoft see it differently……though why the even waste time and money on anyone who would want to transfer this sort of licence is beyond me…

All other Microsoft Licences such as box licences are transferable …….providing they have been purchased through a legitimate channel….

The use of unlicensed software is theft and those who partake or suggest that it is OK to use unlicensed software should be treated as criminals…

How do I know all this …..?in another life I under took Microsoft Licence Training…..which is a very complex field……and is very important to software companies so that they can develop there business and allow the like's of me to have the wonderful freedom that computers allow me…..like using the internet to communicate and learn..

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Mon 19 Mar, 2007 9:26 pm

Dermot wrote: NOT True.....

When you buy Microsoft software Licence OEM….for example VISTA…..from a computer vendor you buy the right to use this on the machine that it came with…

Dermot,
Are you saying this based on past experience or from new info based on the Vista system. I can only go on what I have been told so I don't necessarily know who to believe.

Dermot wrote:…though why the even waste time and money on anyone who would want to transfer this sort of licence is beyond me…

If a computer dies after the initial warranty is up it can sometimes be more cost effective to buy a new machine so why would anyone want to purchase yet another operating system if the one they already paid for is available to use? Obviously this is not a regular occurence, but it can happen and I speak from experience. Likewise if I had to buy a new vee nailer and I had some vee nails still unused (same brand) I would not throw them out and buy new ones.

Dermot wrote: There are those in the computer industry that subscribe to the thought that every component on a computer should have to pay to use the licence rather than just one licence for the whole computer….

Not too difficult to work out who those people would be!

Dermot wrote: Microsoft Licence Training…..which is a very complex field……and is very important to software companies so that they can develop there business and allow the licks of me to have the wonderful freedom that computers allow me…..like using the internet to communicate and learn..

You forgot to add that it also allows a few people to make billions of dollars, which in my humble opinion is nothing more than excessive GREED!

w00dward · Post by **w00dward** » Mon 19 Mar, 2007 10:50 pm

Licensing for Vista changed. Its my understanding that you will be allowed to transfer the license once.

I'll have a dig around my desk tomorrow and see if I can find the source.

It would still be my recommendation to wait at least until service pack 1 is out.

Dermot · Post by **Dermot** » Mon 19 Mar, 2007 11:07 pm

[quote="osgood"
You forgot to add that it also allows a few people to make billions of dollars, which in my humble opinion is nothing more than excessive GREED![/quote]

I would call them good business people