Two tips for the price of one

[Not your average framer]

First tip.

Why do Keencut mountcutting blades have such large round holes in the middle?

I dunno, but a used blunt blade makes a very useful packing shim for making adjustments for wear or alignment on all manor of things. As they come in two thickness you can also use different thicknesses in combination to get the thickness you want.

When I get some spare time, I shall be packing out the bottom head on my Keencut System 4000 with some used Keencut blades, to correct the mis-alignment which has built up over time due to wear.

Second tip.

Discovered this one today! Because Arqadia mountboard is so dense, the sharp outside edges can be a real pain when shrink-wapping mounted prints. This is because the sharp edge penetrate through the film as it shrinks. A quick rub along these sharp edges with a bone folder, then the sharp edges are gone and so is the problem.

[John]

It always surprises me, the stuff I do not Know (I know it shouldn't after all this time).

I never knew that there were two thicknesses of Keencut blade. I've only ever used one, and I couldn't even say which one it is - probably the thin one. But why would there be a thick one?

Thanks for the tips, Not your average framer.

[Not your average framer]

Perhaps I should have said that due to the bottom head's bearings having worn over time it is no longer in alignment with the top head and as the top head can no longer be adjusted by removing shins, I have to pack-out the bottom head to restore the alignment between both heads.

Probably as clear as mud to anyone who doesn't know the System 4000.

BTW John, the thicker blade (15 thou) is not as popular as the normal (12 thou) blade, but it is a little more rigid due to the extra thickness.

[Roboframer]

First tip.

Why do Keencut mountcutting blades have such large round holes in the middle?

Because, if they put them at the end it may bugger up the cut!

I have the excalibur and the blade has always cut 1/16" to the left of where the glass wheel scores. I know that and make adjustments on auto pilot, but maybe stuffing an extra blade or two in there, set back of course, may cure it. I'll experiment - thanks.

[Not your average framer]

John,

You have to un-bolt the whole turret assembly and slip the blades as shim over the bolts between the mounting bracket and the sliding carriage of the head. I havn't tried it yet, but until I do it I can't see any problem in doing so.

[evanstheframe]

I use my old blades as scrapers to clean the old acrylic paint off my glass pallet. Half my cabin is for framing the other half is my art workshop. Its great being able to make a frame up for an unfinished painting at home, it helps to visualise the end result as you are going. Also when people come to pick up frames they see my artwork and sometimes buy. But Not Enough Though LOL. My own fault I dont get out to show them much. Need to set up a Web page of my paintings. Being disabled its hard to get on the road and visit art shops to see if they would take my work on.

[Not your average framer]

They are also quite useful for digging out filler waxes or nail hole filler from their tins and applying to frames. I also use them when I soak off and scrap off backing tape from old frames, or for mixing "Wudfil" which is a two part resin wood filler.

[Not your average framer]

I have the excalibur and the blade has always cut 1/16" to the left of where the glass wheel scores. I know that and make adjustments on auto pilot, but maybe stuffing an extra blade or two in there, set back of course, may cure it. I'll experiment - thanks.

John,

There's a bit of a snag I've discovered. If you take a piece of mountboard and score it with the glass wheel and then cut part way into the mountboard with the MDF wheels, you will find the cut lines up with the scored line.

The problem is that when you cut the MDF, there is a 1/16" of an inch error and this appears to be normal with the Keencut. So if you pack out the bottom head and re-calibrate to suit so it is accurate for MDF, then it won't be accurate if you use the MDF wheels for cutting mountboard.

Apparently, there are some who like to do this to save the cost of Stanley type blades when sizing mountboard.

[Roboframer]

My MDF cutter head thingy is parked up top (I've got the excalibur 5000 - the big size - 60"?) I don't stock or use MDF - only ever use this cutter to cut up MDF that prints etc sometimes come in and I give these pieces to artists to prime and paint on.

No - I'm on about the stanley blade cutting 1/16" different to the glass wheel on the same 'head'.

[Not your average framer]

No - I'm on about the stanley blade cutting 1/16" different to the glass wheel on the same 'head'.

No, neither am I. The glass cutter and the blade are both mounted on the bottom head and always cut in the same position. The difference is between the top and bottom heads.

The MDF cutting wheels are set-up at the factory to cut in the same position as the glass cutter and the stanley blade and is checked by scoring a piece of mountboard with the glass cutter wheel and then checking that the MDF cutting wheels follow the same line in the same piece of mountboard.

The problem is that cutting the MDF causes sufficient forces as to move the cutting line over by about 1/16 of an inch. I don't know if this only happens as machines accumilate wear with age or if it is normal.

[Roboframer]

You've lost me Mark!

I AM on about two things on the same head cutting on different tracks - I don't use the MDF/wheel blades and don't give a stuff if they are 3 feet out!

[Not your average framer]

Oh, I see. Do you mean that you glass cutter and stanley type blade are not in line with each other?

[Roboframer]

That's it - rang Keencut, they said "Oo-er - never heard that one before - we'll get back to you" Never did.

Nor had they ever heard of the aluminium 'bed' the rail where the glass/boards rests, being twisted out of its groove - sorted that after some nice language.

Nor had they ever heard of the return spring on the bottom head snagging, bending and eventually snapping, about one a fortnight - "shouldn't do that' they said - sorted that one out with a plastic domed bumper!

The ratchet on the bottom head has never worked either, have to lock it in place manually.

I think my machine was knocked up at quarter to five on a Friday!

Oh - and while I'm on a roll - I've never liked that the left hand measure can only be set to about 25" - so, if I had to cut 29 x 28" I'd have to cut all the 29s first and then put everything back in with the stop set to 28"

(I know I could have measured the amount of offcut required and set the L/H side to that - but stuff it!)

So - I bought an extra R/H stop, which helps, but they won't go less than 3" apart, so for measurements of say, 36 x 34" .... see above!!!

Really wish I'd bought the F Terry - ditto for the mountcutter AND the oval - hate the oval 6

All be academic when I get me a CMC!!

[kev@frames]

mine on the System 4000 is as follows:
after 15 years of shimming, the glass cutting head and board cutting is 1.5mm out.
the plastic cutting head (blade) is still same as the glass head.

excuse the late hour of posting, btw.

I found that you regularly have to completley dismantle the heads and thoroughly clean everything, saturate it in silicon lubricant to disolve the crud and muck.

Unfortunately, as I have found, they do bend and get out of alignment over a period of abuse, specially if more than one person is using them, and I've resorted to an hydraulic car jack to level up the bottom rail before now!

honsetly Robo, in all seriousness, I cant see the FT being any more durable with heavy use. and I have been pleased with the regular completley free replacement parts from keencut whenever needed.

I think we lose the plot a bit when staff get their hands on things - smash, bang, who gives a feck, and the "I didn't pay for it" attitude when you are not there.

It gets to a point where, as the boss, you can completely lose patience and wonder wtf you are doing constantly adjusting, calibrating and maintaining machinery you bought just so other muppets can do their best to screw it up! Lets face it, it is supposed to be fairly precision machinery, and when you are the sole user it seems to survive quite well.

eg. I never realised, until Roboframers post, how badly the keecut ultimat "went off", or how quickly, with different people using it.

TBH I was a little disappointed with the standard of factory refurbishment of our last Ultimat, which still cuts on the p*ss, but, as you say, with a CMC its not an issue, the ultimat is merely an extra tool in the workshop for cutting up gash board really. I ought to get rid of it.

As pleased as I am with my Wizard CMC, if keencut made one, I reckon I might have been torn which to go for. But I agree that technical support (practical mechanical knowledge) is not as good as it used to be at keencut. There used to be a time when a phone call would sort out any problem or issue, but now you have to figure a lot more out for yourself, or with the help of boards like this.

When you do get a CMC, Robo, do look at the italian job carefully, Merlin's is a beauty, the american job if you want something idiot proof for staff to use, and dont overlook the trucut, which looks like a very underrated bit of kit.

Kev

[Merlin]

Thankyou Kev. Thats kind of you... Now with the new 4.2 software, it is even better. A dream to design on.

Robo. I have the Excalibur 5000 and I checked today. My glass cutting head runs in exactly the same plane as the cutting blade and the scoring blade.

We have had it some 2 years now and it is a real workhorse. Probably tempting fate now. The only problem I have had is the glass cutting roller 'popping out'. Sorted after a phone call and a new holding spring.

Do not understand your problem with the left hand measuring stop. Mine goes right up to the cutting head.

A silly question and I am sure you have checked. Is the cutting blade held between the two 'brashish' coloured plates or is it held on one side. That maybe could account for the error of 1.5mm. Otherwise have no other idea.

[Not your average framer]

Hi John,

A few things which might be worth checking. All of them long shots I afraid, but you never know till you try them.

I'm assuming the turret with the blade and the glass cutter would be similar to the system 4000 (if I'm wrong, sorry).

There are two screws on the left hand side of the turret, if these are undone and removed the left hand side of the turret can be removed. This will reveal a removable flat metal plate against which the Stanley blade is clamped by the clamping screw and another plate. This plate can easily be lifted out for inspection.

Behind this plate is the pivot screw which the whole turret revolves around and a little hole where a small pin on the back of the plate drops in to stop the plate from moving about or falling out. This plate should be seated down flat against the surface behind it, if not your blade will not line up with the glass cutter.

I suspect there might be a thrust washer under the head of the pivot screw, if so it probably is the same as the one between the turret and the spring loaded arm on which the turret is mounted. From memory this washer is about 1/16 of an inch thick.

If two washers were originally fitted in error where there should be only one a 1/16 of an inch error might be a possible outcome. (Some times where washers come in a pack, two can stick together as one). Just a thought!

Also there are two types of glass cutting wheel assembly. One has a white body, the other has a black body. I assume the two types would be so different that you can't fit the wrong one. However, if we are clutching at straws, it might be worth asking the question just in case.
Hope this helps,
Mark

[Roboframer]

Don't get me wrong ref Keencut as a company - these problems were from new, or most, the ratchet thing happened about 2 months in.

When I replaced the old system 4000, which I'd bought second hand YEARS previous and had been perfect - I just wanted a bigger thing really - I had to make a window in the schedule to do the swap over.

Turned out I had flu at that time, but it had to be that time.

My workshop is solid flint and my cordless drill was pathetic (now have an SDS drill which has no respect for any sort of friggin' rock!) but I got it fixed up.

Keencut said that if it came to it they'd replace the whole shebang so I evaluated - can I work around these problems? - do I want to remove and repack this thing and go through all that again?

It's no big deal really - just irksome - when I get a mo I'll look closer - I used to have a size 10 meccano set as a kid!

Thanks for the tips!

When CMC time comes I think it has to be Valiani - seems to get the most votes here and on The Grumble, which is surprising as the majority of grumblers that have CMCs have Wizards, but then, as one highly respected US Framer said to me .............. most Americans drink Budweiser!!!

[Lemon_Drop]

Hi John,
When the time comes to buy a CMC, I dont think its something to rush into, it costs alot of money.
We bought ouy one 2 years ago, and the market has changed since then.
I checked them out on the Grumble at first and its true, Wizard are all over the place there.

It was easier two years ago to select one to buy. Wizzard had no base in Europe. Valiani's software was rubbish then, ever they will admit it. And Gunnar was the next one we looked at, and they had a base in England.

All the machines work on and x and y axis, with a clamping system to hold the mountboard. The software is the most important part, along with backup support in case something should go wrong.

If I was thinking of buying one, I would ask all the company's for a trial version of the software.

I just two years, Wizard has now a base in Eurupe, Valiani has a new version of its software I really dont know how good it is now, and Gunnar has updated its software nearly every 6 months.
If I was changing again, I would still buy a Gunnar, apart from the software, the support could not be better.

But I suppose everyone that has a Wizard or Valiani is going to say the same about their CMC.

Try the software before you splash out. Its the heart of the system.