IKEAAAARGH

[ade]

According to your point of view, i've either stood up for my profession or missed an opportunity to make some money. I'll set the scene.
Three days before Christmas, very busy, like, headless chicken busy!.... Doorbell rings...enter lady carrying very large blue bag with the word IKEA written in bold letters on the side. My blood turned to ice, my wife took cover for she knew what was about to happen....... With a big grin, said lady produces 2 " picture frames" from said bag and proudly announces that she has some work for me!!!!! I must say at this point that i pride myself on customer service to the point of delivering finished orders on Christmas Eve to clients that were at the last minute unable to collect.However with the best will in the world I could barely contain my annoyance....I continue,..."I want you to cut one of those cardboard things to make these pictures fit these frames" The mounts will be £4 each i replied but if i do ANY work on those frames i will also charge £10 per frame plus the mount. Outraged and grumbling she opted just to have the mounts cut. Now, over the last 20 years i have invested in premises, machinery, stock and plenty of time and effort to create a lovely small business. Why should i compromise my skills and my profit margins to create silk purses out of sows ears for people who won't pay me to do the job properly. After all you wouldn't take a packet of frozen beefburgers into a restaurant and ask the chef to pop them under the grill offering to pay for a side of chips and peas! A line in the sand has been drawn. Rant over. Happy new year. Ade.

[shiltonphoto]

I once had a professional wedding photographer ask for a quote to make a large frame for a signature board. His requirements were quite exact - he chose a mid range moulding (that I'd have to order and he wanted it ASAP), and he wanted some some fancy 'celebration' mountboard that I also didn't have in stock. It was slightly larger than other frames I've done for the same thing too.

Upon baulking at the quote I gave him at just £50 (I also know him from outside 'work' and wrongly assumed that it was a potential new long term customer so he also received a sizeable discount), he mentioned that he normally gets his frames from Ikea for about £20. I can still picture his face - blinking wildly and looking puzzled at the piece of paper in his hand, unable to grasp why I was grossly overpriced compared to his normal 'supplier'.

He was quite rude about it, shaking his head in disbelief, and not surprisingly he's never asked for any frames/quotes since, but I'm actually happy about that - reason being; this photographer is charging more or less £1k for the basic wedding shoots package and is happy to present his clients with a pound-stretcher style photo frame.

Down with IKEA!

[prospero]

If I am confronted with a "I want a cardboard thingy......etc", that's just what they get. All wrapped up and ready for them to take home and do whatever they like with it.
If however they want the said thingy shoe-horning into a frame of unknown pedigree, that's went they get the hefty quote. With a few well-chosen observations about it would have been cheaper if I had the choice of moulding in order to minimise the labour-intensive faffing about.



I once had an enquiry about framing a bridesmaid's dress. Without having seen the thing I gave a rough quote of £300+. The lady said see didn't want to spend that much. Fair enough. Then she said she would maybe just get a frame from IKEA. Don't know if she did, but I would have loved to see her trying to get the thing in.

[Roboframer]

you wouldn't take a packet of frozen beefburgers into a restaurant and ask the chef to pop them under the grill offering to pay for a side of chips and peas! A line in the sand has been drawn

You may take a very nice watch to a cheap jeweller or a pretty cheap watch to a high classs one to have some links taken out of the bracelet though!

I'm pretty happy to see anyone coming through my door - and it's only ever shut on Sundays and bank hols - they can have an 8 x 10 frame and be wanting a 12 x 10 mount for it for all I care - my aim is to make them happy with the minimum fuss and show some appreciation instead of contempt for choosing me to do their work .... and not ACME framers down the road. After that it's let's see if we can turn them in to 'proper' customers.

[stcstc]

i agree with robo

if someone comes in wanting a mount, its a mount they get

if they choose to stick it in a frame from ikea then fine

i did a bunch before Christmas, the order total including prints still came to 230 euros. an the mounts were all from offcuts, so decent profit in it

[kev@frames]

I love framers who think it is "beneath" them to make a mat for an Ikea frame.
priceless.
If you don't like that sort of work, don't do it. No point in QQ about it. The customer can very easily get a mat online from any number of suppliers who can deliver it to their home or office the next day in a nice shiny fedex van....

[GeoSpectrum]

That's one lost customer a little profit and any future profit that may have come from further jobs and recommendations.

If you were asked to make 100 mounts for Ikea frames would you turn it down?

If the customer just gave you the dimensions and said 'frame' instead of 'Ikea frame' would you have taken the job?

A jobs a job in my book.

[Not your average framer]

How long does it take to cut a mount? I often will do it while the customer waits. Mount cutting is usually quick and profitable. I also cut mounts for frames which came from a charity shop and even clean the glass, tape and string it, if that is what they are paying me to do. Bring it on!

If the customer wants to spend money with me and I can make a worthwhile profit, why would I say no?

[prospero]

I had a chap in on Christmas Eve. Had a little frame (which may or may not be from IKEA). In the frame was a mount, which I assume came with the frame. Inside all of this was a little painting of a dog. So far so good.....
The guy enquired whether it was possible to cut the mount bigger - that is, cut the hole in the mount bigger. )I resisted the temptation to say that was easier than cutting the hole smaller.) The mount covered too much of the painting. It was only a 10x8 frame to start with.
Anyroadup, I thought WTH and took it upstairs to the mountcutter and reduced the 25mm border to 15mm. Took 2mins max. Charged him 2 quid and he was delighted.
OK, if I did 30 in an hour, possibly more with a following wind, that £480 (inc vat) for a 8 hour day.

Bit boring but not a bad rate of pay.

[Keith Hewitt]

I agree with Robo, Geo, Prospero etc.
You may not like the job, but they are in your shop and that gives you a fantastic opportunity to "educate" them. Joe Public has little idea about framing - so grab any chance you get to help them understnd it better.
Be glad you chose framing - it might have been chiropody

Bit of info..... I supply one of the companies who supply IKEA with framed product. IKEA have decided to switch over to white core in 2013. The tonnage of mount board is 800 - 1000 tonnes p.a. .... and this is only ONE of the companies that supplies IKEA
.

[GeoSpectrum]

I bet the man with the painting of a dog comes back to you at some stage for some more framing/mount cutting Peter.

[Jonny2morsos]

I often do mounts for IKEA frames and frequently while customers wait which gives them a chance to browse and get to know what we do.

Cutting a mount takes little time and if they are budget concious I steer them towards the mount boards I buy in bulk.

If frame prices come into the conversation you can often explain how IKEA can do it so cheap by using MDF wrapped in paper for the frame, low grade mount board and glass (noticed how often you do reglazing in IKEA frames?) and demonstrate the difference with your bespoke service.

As it happens I went to an IKEA yesterday and could not help noticing some of the frames had white core mounts in thick board.

[DCS]

We've had folk in with Wilkinson's frames wanting mounts, we even offer to frame their photo/picture for them (at a small fee).
I don't care here it came from, work is work in my book.

[prospero]

I bet the man with the painting of a dog comes back to you at some stage for some more framing/mount cutting Peter.

Hahaaaahahaaaa. He has just been in for replacement glass. Same frame. How the heckment he managed to break it I do not know. Another 2 quid. Kerching!!

[Steve N]

I'm with everybody on this, a buck is a buck, no job too small, if you fit it to their own frame (IKEA or not), charge a small fitting fee

I've mounted and fitted for 50 CARGO frames (if you think IKEA is bad, then try CARGO) and made a tidy profit out of it, and that was after doing just 1 for the guy a month earlier

[ChrisG]

The problem I find with mount only orders is the unchargeable time taken for the customer to settle on the colour and dimensions. If this is part of a full frame order then there are several areas where profit can be made justifying initial 'consultation'.

15 minutes to choose a mount for a £5 charge (so maybe £3 profit) is hard to swallow.

Having said that I cut and fit a multi-aperture mount to an IKEA frame just before Christmas which when collected was accompanied by another two orders from same customer both for the full works so paid off in the end.

[JamesC]

The original poster has taken a bit of stick here for a very understandable opinion in the heat of Xmas.

As they implied they have probably said yes to so many people who may not even appreciate that the end of the tether is close or what is being done for them. I think they were willing also to do the mount - just wanted money if they had to also frame it for the person or repair it which is fair enough.

£4 for a mount is very reasonable given consultation time etc and some guys on here complaining charge much more per hour than the average. So maybe there should be more empathy and less grandstanding.

I think there is a fair point though that it is not fair to get too irate with the unwitting customer and you have to keep positive. It's good to be fairly well rehearsed in trying to educate them so as not to lose the opportunity or else be shown up or badmouthed (the biggest injustice that occurs). It's slightly different also if the customer is trying to make some clever point or get something on the cheap.

I don't think you can make a business in personal framing from 240 £2 jobs in a day though. You would need a whole week to speak to customers if they only took 10mins of your time in total on average. So it's not a good rate of pay to even do 1 if you have overheads, though it may turn into better business as people have said. 240 the same for 1 customer is totally different and why a minimum charge or sliding scale is good.

In a restaurant there's probably a reason why on the whole the pressured chefs don't speak to the customers except on special occasions!

I do think it's important to draw lines under some treatment from customers or you may end up a busy fool. It's how you do it that counts.

[prospero]

Two sides to this debate.

1. The quality of the supplied frame may be iffy. The corners may be weak. If it's plastic, it may be that the sides will bow out.
Could be that the frame technically unsuitable for the purpose that the customer intends. Too shallow rebate. Anything that goes pear-shaped will ipso facto be your fault.

2. The principle of the thing. Would you buy a pack of beer from the supermarket and take it round to your local pub and ask to hire a glass and sit there all night occupying a seat near the fire drinking it?

[IFGL]

No I wouldn't, but it is a great opportunity to get them to try real ale.

[IFGL]

I would only charge £4 for a mount if it was small(less than 12 x10 ),I'm not fitting it, it has no backing with it and I didn't spend more than 2 minutes taking the order.

I have absolutely no problems at all charging for my time, for example if I'm brought a 20 x 16 frame and they want a mount I will auto default to a double mount and if I'm going the job it has to be done correctly so it's a book mount, the cmc is in the shop, so we would do this while they wait ( unless there is a shop full or the cmc is being used) customer is usually impressed, £24 for 10 to 15 mins work + skill ,customer happy pic looks awesome, and I just hint we would have made it look even better if we had reign over the frame choice.