Basic hobby set up?

[Tinweasel]

So I have been working in a framing workshop for around a year now, frankly I love every minute of it! We are part of a gallery which has its own corporate look and most of our work is framing stock for the gallery or customers artwork which is to be done in "our style" which means that probably 99% of the jobs will be very similar they will be triple mounted, with spacers, normally including additional signatures, badges, fragments, and lots of V groves. These will be framed in a fairly small selection of factory moldings.

Now don't get me wrong this is not a problem, and as I say its something I enjoy hugely, I'm also lucky in that my employer is able to let me work around school times and holidays which really makes life easier for me....

However I'm finding that I want to explore the joys of framing a little bit more and experiment with different techniques to do things a little different. I'm quite happy cutting glass, backboard and moldings, I'm confident pinning the frame together and finishing the frame I have a basic understanding of how to use a CNC mount board cutter. But learning a new skill is something I enjoy, if I can then take those skills back into work all the better!

So whilst I work in a fairly well equipped workshop I can't justify the cost of pneumatic underpinners, morso's or CNC cutters. I do however have a room and a shed that with a little sorting out could do the job but what's the most basic set up worth having that would allow me to turn out a small number of good quality frames to experiment with?

[Keith Hewitt]

Welcome to the Framers Forum Tinweasel.

See you list hobbies as MTB.
As I'm of a certain age to me MTB = Motor Torpedo Boats.
Well that's a first for FF

So Googled MTB and discovered its Mountain Biking as maybe others also wondered what MTB meant.
I will leave it for the others to answer your question.
All I can say is get the best possible equipment you can afford.

[GeoSpectrum]

Well I think you have been spoilt! A CMC is a fantastic tool and one you will miss having access to.

I would say, even for the hobbyist, getting a Morso and a decent foot operated underpinner and a mount cutter will pay back dividends. You may not wish to pay out for them but having come from a well equipped workshop I think you would soon fined the shortcomings of hobby equipment rather frustrating. Second had you should be able to pick up those three ( go for the Keencut gold which is likely to be cheaper but still a great bit of kit) for around £1800.

Morso for the mitre cuter, Cassese for the underpinner and Keencut for the mount cutter.

The will be a few additional small items such as tab guns etc but I'm sure you must know about those already.

Seriously, don't try the hobby kit.

[Tinweasel]

Welcome to the Framers Forum Tinweasel.

See you list hobbies as MTB.
As I'm of a certain age to me MTB = Motor Torpedo Boats.
Well that's a first for FF

Well don’t rule it out, I have an interest in military history and loads of interesting memorabilia/rubbish tucked away. I’m also rebuilding an old Half ton Land Rover so a torpedo motor boat isn’t totally out of the question. Sadly a small semi in the chilterns isn’t the best place from which to start such a hobby.

For those interested this is one of the first things I designed, mounted and framed myself and is fairly typical of the sort of thing we do.

[Not your average framer]

The following thread may be worth looking over:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=17857

[prospero]

Welcome to our Happy Band.

First of all I will reiterate the previous comments on 'hobby' level equipment. If you buy this sort of kit, you will
get 'hobby' results. The money will be ultimately wasted. And consider that you will not be using hobby materials.
It doesn't take long to ruin enough moulding and mountboard to pay for a good secondhand Morso. They are good
machines and last forever. Mine is 36 years old (bought new ) and is still as good as new.

[Justintime]

Hi Tinweasel,
I can recommend a Cassese CS88 foot operated underpinner, adjustable fences, easy to maintain and you can pick one up for a reasonable price at times.
Good luck!
Justin

[Not your average framer]

I agree, I also have a CS-88 and I think they're great.

[Not your average framer]

There have been a good number of framers retiring in recent months and I would guess that there are plenty of good secondhand equipment items to be had right now, if you keep your eyes open at decent prices. You don't need the very latest equipment, as long as it's in good condition and spares are readily available.

Keencut produce a lower price mountcutter called the Artist, which is more or less a cut price Ultimat. I don't know anything about them from experience, but it might be something worth looking at and asking other Keencut Artist owners about. There maybe some Keencut Artist owners on this Forum, who can advise you better than me.

I think that there is often a lot to be said for buying something of reasonably professional quality as secondhand, than paying full price for some items of brand new hobby specification Equipment. When I first got started, it was with mostly secondhand equipment and at the time I had quite limited money, but gradually things came together and I upgraded from time to time, until I ended up with a fairly impressive set up. Most of it is still secondhand.

[Not your average framer]

When I got started, there was not any real thought given to the order in which I got different equipment. However, although it was not planned this way, different items of equipment, very largely were obtained in the right order so that each new item that I got was not waiting for me to get anything else before I was able to use that item.

It may well be that, there is a logical sequence to what you may find worthwhile to obtaining in what order. I'm not going to suggest any particular order. What worked well for me, has very little to do with what may, or may not work for you. However, it may, or may be not something useful to think about. It is probably not something, that is going to be a real big deal, but it may help to get some of your thinking to work a little easier for you.

[Rainbow]

.... what's the most basic set up worth having that would allow me to turn out a small number of good quality frames to experiment with?

I used to be a hobby framer, but now I have different hobbies and my framing is now a small business. However I still use the same equipment, which is a Nobex Proman mitre saw and an Axminster mitre trimmer. I have minus-zero interest in fiddling around with heavy machinery like a Morso, which isn't infallible quality-wise anyway. I'm not sure what prospero means by "hobby results" because I get professional results I don't think I'd have the regular customers that I've got, or get the recommendations that I get, if I didn't give professional results. The main drawback is that it takes more time to make a frame than it would using a Morso, and so it isn't suitable for volume framing but I don't want to do volume framing anyway, and you've said you only want to make a small number of frames. Other factors to bear in mind are that a mitre saw is best suited to cutting softer woods, and you might struggle to cut through wider/deeper mouldings, but if you can live with these restrictions, then all you need to do is to master the skill to make quality frames with a mitre saw and trimmer, which it is certainly possible to do.

[prospero]

Fair point Rainbow, but a mitre trimmer isn't what I'd call hobby equipment.

[Justintime]

Wow!Respect Rainbow! I just looked up the Nobex thingy.You cut frame mitres with that? I guess you dont get asked for 20 kit frames very often.Fair play. The morso isvone of my favourite tools. Foot operated, blades that can take your fingers off...whats not to like ??

[Orde02]

Hello Rainbow. I think I'm pretty much starting the way you did. Been looking at getting a Nobex saw for a few weeks but it seems tricky to get a hold of. Either out of stock or on back order.
Just wondering how many frames a week on average do you make? What other equipment do you have for your level of out put?

Matt

[Not your average framer]

When I got started I had a Nobex Proman 110 mitre saw as well and it served me very well too! A very sensible bit of kit, for those with only a limited budget. I was able to stretch the finances to buying a new CS-79 and this was on the thinking that an underpinner has a lot of moving parts and therefore more bits to go wrong and therefore I thought a new underpinner should be a good move for reliability.

While all this was happening, Western Arts a long established and well known picture framing shop closed down and over quite a long period I kept on going back as and when I was able to find the money to see what was left. Eventually I bought most of their equipment and most of their stock. I had spent 6 months being trained at Triton Galleries in Torquay, which was arranged by a govenment funded organisation through the employment service and I was ready to go, or so I thought.

I took quite a while as my business struggled into life and I did not make any worthwhile money for ages. Eventually I took on a shop and 6 months later had a heart attack. This took a while for me to get over and although I assumed that I could not keep the business going, things did keep going and this was a hard learning curve. My wife was concerned that I needed a holiday to recover from the heart attack and the only way we could afford a holiday was to take up an offer from the employment service for £1500 available for extra training, which provided 5 days of training with Pete Bingham in Sheffield.

To a significant degree, it was this training that turned my business around and things started to make sense. I would not say that I was a runaway success, but I certainly moved up another gear. Pete helped me to understand that I needed to concentrate on the quality end of the market and avoid doing cheap, rock bottom deals, which weren't enabling me to pay the bills. He also taught me a lot about what to stock and how to price work to be sure that I could survive. Anyone just starting up, needs to understand that being good at picture framing is not enough to survive, you also have to understand the important bit, which is how to run a business.

Learning to manage cash flow and not spend money on unnecessary items probably does not come naturally to any of us in the early days, but it is a very large part of making things work and it takes plenty of working at, before you really know what it is about. I and my wife have been though a lot of hard knocks along the way. A heart attack, a possible small stroke and a bigger stroke, but we are still here as I would say, mainly by the goodness of God and not ourselves. It is not easy to make any meaningful plans while you are going through all of this and you are very grateful, when helpful things happen at those times, when you hit rock bottom.

Success does not just happen, for many it is a very steep learning curve, but most of us still are glad to be doing what we do!

[Keith Hewitt]

Pete has taught many people over the years, and most have found it most beneficial.

You can get his books from Amazon, but I often use Abe books >>>>

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Sear ... &kn=&isbn=

[Steve N]

Hello Rainbow. I think I'm pretty much starting the way you did. Been looking at getting a Nobex saw for a few weeks but it seems tricky to get a hold of. Either out of stock or on back order.
Just wondering how many frames a week on average do you make? What other equipment do you have for your level of out put?

Matt

I have one, could sell it, as I don't use it anymore

[Tinweasel]

Thank you all for your input, I'm in a bit of an odd position because I don't have any intention of making profit from it if I'm honest I just don't have a "business head" so really I want to spend as little as possible.

My current thinking is a mount cutter first, that will let me do things like deep bevel or cove boxes/3D objects and generally playing about with mounts and then an underpinner(we have a nice if old programmable alfa machines one at work, so any manual one is going to seem a hassle). I'm not so worried about cutting moldings at the moment as I could potentially do that at lunch times or use a chop service.

Many thanks

[Steve N]

bit of a wasted thread

[Not your average framer]

You can pay for rather a lot of framing with what it will cost to buy a reasonable set up of hobby equipment. Are you sure that this is going to be cost effective use of your money. I've got a few hobby framers, who just get mounts from me and buy the frames from places like Ikea. They have probably found the cheapest way to do things!