can't get prints to stick onto canvas

chevron · Post by **chevron** » Mon 05 May, 2008 9:38 am

hi everyone

have just joined your forum, i am so glad to have found something like this...just by reading through your discussions i have already picked up some tips that i'm sure i will find very useful...have just bought a hot bed press and would like to bond prints onto canvas but having problems...not sticking very well...bought tissue from lions...have had press very hot...left in for 5 mins...can anyone give me any advice?

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Mon 05 May, 2008 2:33 pm

Take a look at Hot Press's website http://www.hotpress.co.uk/canvas%20bonding.pdf

It may help!

Robin

Not your average framer · Mon 05 May, 2008 4:41 pm

Canvas bonding is a complicated process, but it becomes fairly straight forward with sufficient training, practice and experience.

If you have not had the necessary training and are not using Fusion 4000 dry mount film, then I suggest you arrange to get yourself trained and buy a roll of Fusion 4000.

Good training is the key to success to this business!

However that doesn't mean that it's easy - It's not! It's a lot of messing about and not for the faint hearted.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 05 May, 2008 6:30 pm

Hi Chevron, and welcome to you!

In order to develop a 'feel' for the process, and your own equipment, it might be worth experimenting by trying to bond throwaway stuff to your canvas: the pieces need not be big in order to establish the correct times and temperatures you'll need to use. I've not yet had a reason to use canvas bonding, but 5 minutes may not be long enough, particularly if the press was cool when you first placed the piece into it.

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Mon 05 May, 2008 7:13 pm

Sorry about my brief reply earlier I was in my shop and was a bit busy.

We used to mount prints onto canvas 20 odd years ago, but the amount of time that it took, plus the risk of damaging the print stfering the service. If you have the patience and the time it is worthwhile, otherwise I would look at other ways to make a profit! At the time, most prints were framed after canvas bonding, and we found it much easier to heatseal with textured heatseal and it was acceptable to our customers. Mind you, with box canvases being in vogue at the moment it might be worth the time and effort required to go back to canvas bonding.

I won't be offering the service - I send customers to a local printer to have their images printed onto canvas, and then I get the stretching cost, which suits me at the moment.

RobinC

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Mon 05 May, 2008 7:23 pm

Moglet wrote:I've not yet had a reason to use canvas bonding,

What exactly is the reason for bonding prints to canvas?

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 05 May, 2008 7:27 pm

Presumably to transfer reproductions not available in native canvas format for those that like the look of art on canvas?

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Mon 05 May, 2008 7:44 pm

I have never understood that. It seems like a lot of trouble to go for an effect that can only be appreciated when you're up close to the art! It just seems pointless to me!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 05 May, 2008 7:46 pm

Given the popularity of canvas wraps over here these days, I can see why there might be an interest in it.

chevron · Post by **chevron** » Mon 05 May, 2008 7:49 pm

thanks for the advice everyone...will try the fusion 4000 and experiment with small stuff...we have been buying prints bonded onto canvas blocks from devon publishing and they have proved to be quite popular where we are so we thought we would have a go ourselves to cut costs...i thought that they might have gone out of fashion by now yet here in the n.w it seems that they are just coming in...personally i'm not that struck on them but if they help to pay the overheads then i'm sure i can learn to tolerate having a few around in the shop...cheers!

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Mon 05 May, 2008 8:00 pm

Moglet wrote:Given the popularity of canvas wraps over here these days, I can see why there might be an interest in it.

I understand that people do like canvas wraps (I don't particularly like them) but when a print is transferred to canvas, the effect isn't all that spectacular anyway, so to me it seems like a lot of work for a minimal effect. Just my opinion and I am allowed to have wrong opinions!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 05 May, 2008 8:09 pm

osgood wrote:Just my opinion and I am allowed to have wrong opinions!

Don't go so hard on yourself, Ormond! Opinions are like feelings. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' in such things: they just are what they are.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Mon 05 May, 2008 8:22 pm

Áine,
It's just a fun expression I sometimes direct to others when they don't agree. Only ever used on people who are very close friends and who know that I am pulling their leg.

Was in no way being serious!

kaptain.kopter · Post by **kaptain.kopter** » Mon 05 May, 2008 10:19 pm

I'm not a big fan of canvases myself but they're an excellent income generator for me. There isn't many weddings when I don't do at least one canvas order.

I still use RA4 prints up to 20x32", apply an overlay, strip the backing paper and then mount to canvas. I find that the traditional approach still looks better than any inkjet printed canvas I've seen so far.

I'm increasingly being asked to supply prints on acrylic which I have to outsource. I think this will become the 'new canvas' over the next 5 years.

At least nobody has asked me to load images into a digital photo frame yet!!!!!!!!!!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 05 May, 2008 10:44 pm

kaptain.kopter wrote:At least nobody has asked me to load images into a digital photo frame yet!!!!!!!!!!

Shhhh!!! They'll hear you!!

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Tue 06 May, 2008 9:53 am

chevron wrote:thanks for the advice everyone...will try the fusion 4000 and experiment with small stuff...we have been buying prints bonded onto canvas blocks from devon publishin

Ask Hot Press for some samples of their film as well. I used to use Fusion 4000 for bonding canvas to fomeboard but have switched to Hot Press's Dry Mount Film Clear as it has more grab and seems to produce a stronger bond.

Post by **prospero** » Tue 06 May, 2008 10:21 am

I've seen some very nice canvas bonded prints recently, virtually indistinguishable from the original. It was quite common practice in times gone by. I still get people coming along with 'Grannies oil painting'. Which turns out to be a canvas mounted print varnished over. .

It only really works aesthetically if the image is from an oil painting though. Photos tend to look slightly phoney IMHO.

This is one job I would definately farm out though.

Bill Henry · Post by **Bill Henry** » Tue 06 May, 2008 4:36 pm

Fusion 4000 has given me very inconsistent results. I still use it, but for very large canvases, I tend to use a Fabric Adhesive.

Fabric Adhesive looks and handles like a thick, gooey white PVA. We brush it onto the back of a canvas and let it dry until it turns into a glaze. The nice thing about this liquid adhesive is that, once dry, it can be heat activated and placed into a dry mount press.

Because it is applied as a slow flowing liquid, it seems to penetrate the weave of the canvas better than Fusion 4000, so, in our experience, gives a more permanent bond.

Because of its consistency, we haven’t had any problems with the glue migrating through the canvas and into the art.

In any event, you might try using a FoamBoard with a “Rag” surface. The rag seems to have more “tooth” than the smooth stuff and seems to hold a bond better.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » Tue 06 May, 2008 4:43 pm

My advice is don't bother. I used to do dozens of them back in the eighties and they were always a pain in the backside. Gave it up years back

Steve Goodall · Post by **Steve Goodall** » Thu 08 May, 2008 5:50 pm

Hey Chevron - You certainly are new to this... For info - tissue only sticks "flat things to flat things" - prints to boards etc... So forget tissue for this application. Secondly forget Fusion 4000 too - it "bonds as it cools" rather than as it gets hot - so it is likely to peel off when you take it out of your press, unless you turn the temperature down on your press & leave it to cool as the press cools. That could take "hours" though. SO why not choose the right product for the job - which is Drymount Film (clear). Contact Hot Press & they will send you a sample (lovely folk). Ask them nicely & they will also give you a free DVD on how to use your machine properly too (very lovely folk). Have a look on their website (www.hotpress.co.uk) & you can book a free training course (your nearest is in Stalybridge - small world) (very very lovely folk). Don't be put off by people saying it is "difficult" or "messy" or "fiddly" - they are the people who are making money at it & want to keep the secrets for themselves. Get trained & get earning the profits!!!