Not a lot of people know that.

[Not your average framer]

Lateral thinking department here again! The phrase 'not a lot of people know that' is popularly attributed to Michael Caine, but it was actually used by Peter Sellers while doing an impression of Michael Caine and has been attributed to Michael Caine ever since.

However in this particular case, I'm using it as an excuse to introduce some more unusual hints and tips of use in picture framing. I hope others will jump in with a few similar tips of their own.

So here my contribution:

Not a lot of people know this, but ships at sea or also in port often use large amounts of Coca Cola as a cleaning agent. I also learnt about this while learning to restore antique furniture. So when someone brings in a very old a dirty frame in need of a good clean and all the usual methods fail to shift some of the dirt, try some Coca Cola. It's quite a good cleaner and often removes the stuff that other cleaners leave behind. It's also gentle and safe on most wood finishes and old gilt frames. I would suggest that you clean off any residue afterwards, just in case!

Any remaining after cleaning may be used for your refreshment. Some may consider this a good opportunity to buy it for a legitimate business use and then dispose of what remains in the most appropiate way.

Any more not so well known, unusual or humourous tips please. Don't be shy! You can always start it off with the above now famous phrase if you wish.

[prospero]

That's spooky. I just used the immortal phase about 5 mins ago in a post.

I opened a big bottle of fizzy drink the other day. It must have been a bit shook up because it squirted out and dibbled all over my ceramic hob. When I mopped it all up I did notice it hadn't looked so clean for ages. (if ever. )

[Bill Henry]

When I was in elementary school (maybe the fourth grade) our teacher tried to demonstrate how unhealthy carbonated beverages were to the well being of our little selves. She placed one earthworm in a jar of Coke; another in a glass of water.

The following morning she pointed out that the earthworm in the Coke was belly up (how she could tell the belly from the back didn’t occur to me at the time) while the worm in the water was still squirming around.

With great satisfaction she claimed that this proved her thesis that soda pop was a killer.

I took a different message. If I drank Coke, I wouldn’t get worms.

(exit stage left)

[Not your average framer]

Not a lot of people know that,but the metal used for normal (soft wood) and hard wood underpinning wedges (V-nails) are the same. The difference is in how the sharp edge is ground.

Softwood wedges are ground with a bevel which tends to pull the two sides of the joint more tightly than the hard wood wedges, if both are used in exactly the same hardness of wood. The amount of pulling together is not only a function of how the edge is ground, but also a function of the actual hardness of the wood.

If you want to demonstrate this to yourself, make up two different mitred samples in the same hardwood moulding (either Oak or Ash), but use "normal" wedges in one and "hard wood" wedges in the other. Then break both samples apart and look at how much the wedges in the two samples have leaned outwards towards the outside of the joint.

Knowing about this can be very helpful at times.

Hardwood wedges, (which deviate less than the normal wedges), can be a better choice when stacking multiple wedges in a deep moulding made from a softer wood because the wedges are less likely to slide off of the wedge above and prevent you from inserting to the intended stacked height.

Likewise normal wedges can help with hard wood mouldings which due to their profile or some other factor do not always pull together as you would like.

With some very deep box frame mouldings where it is difficult to stack as many wedges as I would like, I may get around this problem by placing a stack of hard wood wedges very close to the rebate (rabbet), Due to the very close positioning to the rebate, the thin layer of wood between the wedge and the rebate will give a little making it easier to insert the stack of wedges. The use of hard wood wedges (if it is a moulding produced from a softer wood) will cause less deviation away from the rebate and therefore make it easier to insert the full stack of wedges.

Other wedges further towards the outer edge of the frame may not be able to penetrate to the same stack height or make deviate and exit the side of the moulding if stacked. These may therefore be less important, because the long stack near the rebate will hold the front face of the moulding tightly together at the mitre. Therefore these others can be inserted to a limited stack height if stacked at all, as their primary purpose now is just to stiffen the corner and add some extra rigidity.

[elly-d]

awesome i didnt know that, i swapped to buying only hardwood recently as they were the same price and sometimes i have noticed the joins could be tighter. i think i may swap back to buying both now.

thanks dude.

[Jonny2morsos]

It's the phosphoric acid (H3PO4) in the coca cola and the useful thing about phosphoric acid is it contains 3 hydrogen atoms so has the potential to produce three hydrogen ions (H+) in separate reactions which ultimately combine with water molecules.

The fact that it works in coke is probably because it is in a useful concentration which you would not achieve using just phosphoric acid (if you could get it) without a lot of experimenting to get the concentration correct.

John.

[Dave]

If you have rats in or around your workshop, leave a tray of coke out for them... alledgedly they don't have the facility to burp and they die. Don't know if it's rue or not, but I almost wet myself thinking of them so puffed up with gas that their paws don't reach the floor. Cruel I know, but hey they are rats.

Dave

[kev@frames]

hmm, a wasp-magnet to get rid of rodents - reminds me of the "fresh breath" tablets we got for our eldest dog...
... they worked but they made him f*rt instead

if you are after ridding yourself of mice/rats etc from the workshop or store, heres another tip: I got one of those plug-in rodent repellers for my garage not only has it been mice free for a year, the thing also drives out all the spiders and bugs! Not a lot of people know that.

[Bron]

The acid in the coke is the cleaner, but, lordy, the moisture in the coke will remove, traditional, water gilt gold. Be careful. On metal leafed surfaces, you will probably remove the sealant, causeing a very rapid oxidation of the metal leaf. Sorry, just because you get an immediate "good" effect, does not make it the right thing to do. The potential damage caused by coke on antique frames is so high, that I would not recommend it under any circumstances. Besides, the sugar will attract rodents and bugs.

[Not your average framer]

The potential damage caused by coke on antique frames is so high, that I would not recommend it under any circumstances.

I did say to use it when all other methods fail, mind you I wouldn't dream of using it to clean an expensive watergilded frame or anything else of significant value. However Coke really shifts seriously old grime which other methods have far less effect upon.

I've been using it quite a while on old frames bought in as job lots without any problems, but I wash off any residue afterwards and would not consider doing otherwise. I've got several such old frames in my back room which must have been subjected to this treatment, in some cases at least two years ago and they look fine. Some have been refinished, while some have not.

I regularly buy old frames if the price is right and sell them to customers for reframing old equestrian and hunting prints which have a very local big following. They are displayed and labelled as being old (i.e. not new) and are often very popular.

Such frames are either finished in bronzing powder type paints, or are old fashioned quality wood frames, particularly old veneered mouldings. My difficulty is not in selling them, but getting enough of them in worthwhile condition and in the size and style required. Customers also buy old frames from auctions, for me to cut down, restore and then use for framing their own paintings, prints or engravings.

It's not something that I particularly encourage, but customers keep bringing me this sort of work and usually I am happy to oblige. The more of these I do, the more the word gets around and the old frames keep on coming.

In the last few years, we've had a lot of new people moving to Devon. Many of these are young, successful, have money to spend and have a taste for things which are old, different or hand-finished, which is what I like to do!

The following picture is of a frame which I have refinished and is probably more than 150 years old. I think this sort of thing is a useful niche in the market, if you are in a good location for selling this sort of thing.

[Bron]

Not your average framer,

Use caution, be aware that water will remove old water gilt gold, even if it has been sealed, but it sounds as though a lot of what you are seeing is bronze powder finishes. Considering the history of antique frames, worrying about a loss of finish does seem a little trivial. Sorry. You seem to have a feel for what you're doing, though I would not recommend that Coke be a standard; as you say, really a last resort. I think that making folks aware of how quickly you can damage a finish is important; I've seen many important frames just fucked, excuse my French.

I do understand the need to economically clean something; get it in and out, but I fret. I've used muriatic acid, myself. The sugar in Coke bothers me, but as someone else mentioned, something in the formula for drinking may be just right for cleaning; but battleships are steel; frames are not so tough.

Bron

[Not your average framer]

Hi Bron,

Muriatic acid, are you winding me up?

That's an extremely powerful acid! I know this because I used to work for a military electronics company where it was used for removing mica loaded epoxy resin, which is a very resistant material. It actually disolved the mica! I seem to remember that the materials safety data sheet for this one was printed on red paper, which was company policy so that you didn't miss the fact that is was dangerous.

It sounds a bit risky! I bet that it removes move than just the dirt and grime. I can remember watching the fumes coming off from the epoxy in the fume cabinet. I think that's one particular chemical that I'd like to avoid!

[Bron]

There are different dilutions, and weak muriatic acid is used to etch concrete, to improve adhesion. I was in the "I'll try anything" mode to get the gunk off this one frame. The technique I used is a neutral solvent like VM&P Naptha to moisten the surface, the weak acid, wiped quickly, followed by the Naptha again. Worked, though like the Coke, needs to done very carefully. That is a good technique, regardless of what the solvent or cleaner is, as the naptha protects the gilding somewhat.

Sometimes you have to do what you gotta do; one of these days I'll probably try Coke.

[framejunkie]

one of these days I'll probably try Coke

I tried it once but i prefer the muriatic acid - it tastes better and it doesn't stain your teeth

[prospero]

LOL.

It does tend to rot your socks though.