Trade Reps

[John]

I have noticed lately that very few of the reps who visit us actually know anything about picture framing, or show the slightest interest in it.

Of course they all have great product knowledge, and are very helpful when it comes to placing an order, making us aware of the latest offers etc. Some are great gossips and keep us abreast of the latest goings-on within the business.

But sometimes I wonder if it would be in their interest (and ours) if they were to learn a little bit about picture framing.

[Merlin]

Oh John, you are so right there.
Only last week we had a moulding rep from a fairly well know supplier. The Valiani CMC was going, doing its own thing. He looked at it and said. "Oh what does that thing do then?"

[BaBaZa]

I think knowing how to frame helps when working as a rep. I may not be as competent a framer as most of my customers but I have been able to pass on hints and tips on my travels, and pick up a few more. Sometimes a framer could have a problem working with a particular moulding and I can recommend a solution for it. Occasionally(never.....honest) I can see the problem is with the moulding straight away and can avoid using the dreaded line 'thats the first time I've heard of an issue with this moulding, you're the first person to say anything'.

Maybe I should sit my GCF to prove how good a framer I am

[Keith Hewitt]

I have two very succesful distributors in European countries who both only employ framers as salesmen. The salesmen work 3 days for the distrib. and 3 days in their frame shops. Their wives cover when they are out. The big advantage is that when they visit their customers they have empathy and understanding with their needs. It seems to work very well.

Keith Hewitt
Colourmount Board

[Roboframer]

I deal with a myriad of products besides framing - mostly craft - esp needlecraft.

You'd think that most needlecraft and/or haberdashery reps would be female - WRONG we have NO female reps on that side and none of the reps are gay, to my knoweldge - not that that would be a problem. I'm talking about 35 - 40 different companies here. (including other crafts, giftware and greetings - add my ten or so companies on the framing/art side and in total we have ONE female rep)

None of our reps on that (other) side could thread a needle, probably. They are just there to sell.

On the framing side - maybe it would be nice to have Bill or Joe who used to run their own business, or maybe still do on the side. But why did they pack it in? Why do they need to rep as well?

Because they could not make a living from it, let alone a profit!

The word 'Rep' is self-explanatory - they represent a company, if that company just sells stuff, then it won't matter what that stuff is at all, if they can relate it may be an advantage. They have targets and if they meet or better still, exceed them then their MDs won't give one if it is through sales pitch or hands on demonstration.

If I had 3 days out of my workshop - I'd need to make that time up somehow - or make a window in the schedule for it. Anyone employing a framer is not employing a very successful one! Not someone whose advice I would take much heed of - probably someone who could lead me in to bad habits. Then again maybe someone like this could be from the other end of the spectrum - a VERY good, VERY successful framer who has a team who he simply supervises, but then why would he need or want to devote time that he has EARNED himself on hawking someone else's products other than his own? I know framers like this exist though and they really are at the other end of the spectrum but .......

"Their wives cover when they are out?" HA!

Drop in sometime Keith!

[Framing Norah]

Ah Robo, you seem to have missed the point somehow. It’s when selling to the END USER that a bit of knowledge about how your product is actually used is so useful.

I’m sure that this kind of expertise doesn’t matter a jot when selling to someone who is just passing your product on without adding any value. You will tell me if I am wrong I’m sure, but knowing little of your business I am guessing that it is Mrs Robo who gets to deal mostly with your needlework customers.

The point I am trying to make is that a business selling needlework products to the actual end users would get nowhere if run by a couple of hairy a**ed blokes who have absolutely no interest in this type of craftwork.

You'd think that most needlecraft and/or haberdashery reps would be female

Why on earth would you think that?

None of our reps on that (other) side could thread a needle, probably. They are just there to sell.

Do you mention this because you are surprised by this? Or because you think that we should be surprised by this?

[Tech GUNNAR]

Hello All

This is a very intresting discussion and one I think all your suppliers should take heed of.
I joined GUNNAR back in January of this year (Although my backgroud is of a technical Sales within a diffrent industry)
My knowlage of Framing was limited to say the least.

On my first day with GUNNAR I went to LION PFS and was shown how to cut a mount by a Guild Commended Framer on a logan.

The next couple of weeks were spent at Hotpress training days (with Steve Goodall) and Keencut training days (with Richard Clarke) I have learnt how to use a Morso and differnt double mitre saws, various makes of underpinner and even a canvass streching machine. I have read countless books by Lynn Hall and Vivian Kistler etc.
I have received excellent training in Switzerland on not only with our machines but framing equipment in general.
This experience has proved invaluable when visiting new and existing customers and most appriciate the effort that the company has put into my training program.

I have recieved great training so far and it is planned for me to visit The McKee Gallery to be trained up to GCF level.

I think any potential rep coming into this industry should under go at least a weeks beginers level in picture framing.

[John]

Welcome to the forum Kevin.

Making the effort to be aware of some of the skils required to be a framer - that's impressive!

[Roboframer]

Ah Robo, you seem to have missed the point somehow. It’s when selling to the END USER that a bit of knowledge about how your product is actually used is so useful.

Fair comment - but insert the missing word .........'a bit of knowledge' is ........... ?

[Lemon_Drop]

Welcome to the forum, Kevin.Well I suppose theres no harm about learning all you can about the various aspects of framing and using morso's underpinners, saws , hot presses and all the other equipment that everyone uses here. But if you were to visit me being an Rep. of Gunnar, the questions I would be asking you is about your CMC's. I really would not care if you never even seen an underpinner.Maybe its a good thing that by doing those courses etc. if will give you an idea of what we all go through everyday and you can relate to that. I bought a Gunnar CMC two years ago, and it was the best money I ever spent, its cheaper than employing another person to cut mounts and its never sick or hungover on a Monday morning. Tell Sarah that I said hello.

[Framing Norah]

I know that I'm going to kick myself for this robo, but your response has me intrigued.

insert the missing word .........'a bit of knowledge' is ........... ?

I am not a hundred percent sure of where this word is to be inserted, so have turned to Google to see how the phrase might be completed. This is a summary of the first page of results to the query "a bit of knowledge is" (quotes included)

• 1. no longer relevant
  2. better then none
  3. needed that can't be expressed
  4. intransmissible
  5. certainly applicable
  6. danerous
  7. essential
  8. a dangerous thing
  9. given to us by God

Given the context, it's hard to decide between 2, 5, and 7, but since you are looking for a single word, I'll go with 7.

Do I win the prize?

[Roboframer]

I am not a hundred percent sure of where this word is to be inserted

Now that's just asking for it!

[Tech GUNNAR]

Hello Lemon Drop

I am pleased to hear you are so happy with your machine and even more pleased to here it has made such an impact on your business.

My thoughts were the same as your thoughts on learning the diffrent aspects of framing but i have quickly learned that without a full understanding of framing in general I can not understand the true advantages of our machines and standing in the market place

Kind regards

Kevin

PS. Sarah said hello.

[TONY.W]

I am new boy to the forum so go easy.I have been in the framing business for about 18 years and for the past 2 years have been branch manager of one of the leading picture frame supply companies.Before I joined this company I worked for a leading company in both its Gallery status and ran the workshop for them.
I used to be terrified when reps used to come in and tried to sell merchandise that was just awful.Most of the merchandise they did not have a clue about,mouldings they had never used and couldn't give advice on and mount boards they didn't know the word conservation or standard.I hope that when customers now come into my place of work that with the knowledge I have built up over the years I can at least help them or try and steer them in the right direction and also try and help them not to waste money on things that they will never use and just end up sitting on the workshop shelf.

[greenfields]

wel this is a good topic now i have been in this bussiness for a long time and have met a lot of reps here in ireland now they no nothing about what you are doing they could not cut a mount but tell you there mountboard is the best in ireland i was looking about buying a cmc mountcutter before the recession i was going to buy a valiani then the rep changed his job to a moulding company in wicklow at that time the valiani was the best machine ever until he changed his job now the best machine is the wizzard best in the world . I get sick of this rep because i thought he was honest but al he does is tell lies al the time .
there is another rep who has good sense of the job and can tell you the best way even if it is some other supplier supplies the product
he is honest the other rep just wants orders and does not know anything about framing .
as from the new year i will have no time for reps from any company if i want a order i will place it with the person i think will not take a hand out of me or try it
and if i buy a new cmc i will buy it in england where i know nobody and make up my mind when i ask this forum what is the best machine because this is where the framers tell the right stories

[Roboframer]

Welcome to the forum Tony!

Seems you've dragged an old topic to the fore - but that's OK.

I am new boy to the forum so go easy.I have been in the framing business for about 18 years and for the past 2 years have been branch manager of one of the leading picture frame supply companies.

I see your company is called PFS and you are not that far from me, compared to some companies I use - but I've never heard of 'em - so how can they be a 'leading company?'

[Roboframer]

Unless you mean Lion PFS?

Is Lion South in Ashord? - Can't find the address on Lion's website.

[Keith Hewitt]

Is Lion South in Ashord? - Can't find the address on Lion's website.

John,

Its here!
http://www.lionpic.co.uk/About-Us.aspx
They are in Hayes - Middlesex

[Keith Hewitt]

John,

Why dont you try PFS in Ascot and let us all know what you think of them?
I've heard there delivery charges are ridiculous, so suggest you collect instead

How long to do a return trip to Ascot?
Longer than you might think
http://www.kosnar.com.au/

[Roboframer]

You've confused me Keith! (not difficult)

Are you saying Tony is from Oz! But that website is not for 'PFS' or any trade supplier!

Who are PFS?