underpinning or hoffman

[bonzzz]

I make a line of custom frames and have only made about 30 or forty a year. I now want to up that to about 200, so I am setting my self up better then miter box and nails. Got a used morso and now need some guidance. I have been looking at the Manual Cassese CS88( will still use glue) or the hoffman joining system. I would really appreciate some feedback. Thankyou

[Keith Hewitt]

Welcome bonzzz

Where is PA ? If its USA you will probably feel more at home on THE GRUMBLE (akaTG)

http://www.thegrumble.com/

They tend to be a noisier bunch than we are, but that is to be expected

Either forum will get you an answer, but IMHO you will get a whole lot more from TG

Good luck with your framing ambitions

[framemaker]

Hello Bonzzz,

welcome to the forum

I think it depends on what type of mouldings and timber you are using. They are quite different systems.

I only have limited experience with the CS88, having used it briefly at a part time job years ago, I found it to be a good low volume machine, although I did find it struggled with oak and ash mouldings. So I'd better let someone else give detailed review of the Cassese, although I will say it is a very popular underpinner.

I use a pneumatic underpinner for most frames but use the Hoffmann MU2 for almost all the hardwood frames like oak and ash, it is especially good for deep hardwood mouldings which you could never stack V nails in, also for very wide mouldings (which are to wide for the underpinner), and I also use it for joining together antique frames which often have blocks and irregular backs which are difficult to join on an underpinner.

I very rarely use the Hoffmann on pre-finished mouldings, mainly only on barewoods, it can not be used for thinner mouldings (about 1/2" wide is the minimum). It is a very good method of joining, but probably not best suited to many typical custom picture framers .

So if your using only barewood frames, especially deep and wide hardwoods, (more like carpentry frames) then the Hoffmann is worth looking at. But if you will be using the typical selection of mouldings used by most custom framers then you would probably be better off with the CS88, or an even better option would be the pneumatic version.

Richard

[bonzzz]

thankyou for the information, it is helpful and I do use ash and walnut, but not much over 2 inches wide. Some finished and some not. So the pnumatic does offer more pressure?

[emeraldart]

I use a cs 89 pneumatic underpinner. Its a few years old so maybe not like new. Despite what manufacturers say it doesnt clamp in a way that you can see the joint before you pin. I would still prefer a good manual clamping system. Also there is no "feel" as you pin. A manual underpinner gives you better feel and you know the vnail is fully inserted. I now glue first and clamp until glue is set and then underpin. I know this is not the most common way of doing things and wouldnt work for very high volumes but it suits me best until I find a better method. My underpinner doesnt always fully insert all the edges even on soft wood.
Also beware that irregular shaped mouldings can be quite difficult to underpin with any underpinner as it is not possible to get even downward pressure on the moulding.

[bonzzz]

what do you do if it does not insert it all the way??

[emeraldart]

Turn it over and use a hammer......serious. Works every time. Make sure to put something soft bentath the moulding to avoid damage.

[iantheframer]

I use a CS88 and think it a great machine, the merits have been discussed here many times.

Turn it over and use a hammer......serious.

I have found that it is easier and safer to give any slight protrusions a rub over with a coarse metal working file. It only takes a few strokes and there is no danger of damage.

[mikeysaling]

i have recently (2 months ago) purchased a cs 59 - which is a basic foot operated underpinner - but very efficient and excellent value . i soon got the 'feel' of the pedal and only in the first week did i get some v nails not fully home. For these i resorted to my old hand 'easy' pinner which pushed the nail fully home.

I really recommend this machine for low volume framing .

[sim.on]

what do you do if it does not insert it all the way??

On my manual Taurus underpinner I just remove the nail cartridge and push down again on the pedal.