can anyone help

[marct]

Hi all,
Just doing a quote for a mass production run and wondered if anyone could give me a way of best working out how many 20"x6" backboards i could get from a standard 914mmx1220mm sheet and also how to best work out a cutting diagram.

thanks in advance
Marc

[stcstc]

key it into your cmc software and wit will work it out for ya

[sim.on]

At a quick scribble I made it 13 with no allowance for cutting on the long lengths.

[sim.on]

Just looked again (quiet morning !). Or 12 with no allowance on the short cutting edge which is preferable.

[Steve N]

You can download this free trial software http://www.optimizecutter.com/download.html once you have set it up with all your sheet sizes, you can input component sizes and it will work it out for you, and you can print it off, you can also input the price of the sheets, and will tell you the cost. You can also mix sizes, if you want say 30 of one size and 55 of another size it will optimize the best layout.

Steve

[JamesC]

I use a Valiani Supreme but not had it long.

It seems to optimize for one sheet ok, took us a while to work it out (we had an out-of-date manual and software originally after buying second hand and being given the wrong disc).

Anybody know if it can, or another program that can, optimize for multiple sheets i.e you throw 20 large picture mounts at it in various quantities and it optimizes and nests across e.g. 4.5 sheets of mountboard.

Will that downloadable program do that?

While I'm on - the Valiani always seems to optimize for the top right hand corner of the sheet. That's a bit of a pain because the workign area is 1m x 1.5m i.e a little smaller than an Arqadia jumbo board and I've been told Arqadia is the best moutnboard for a CMC.

A jumbo board will sit on the machine while it cuts without causing any problems, but it means when we tried it earlier we got waste at the top and bottom.

While this would be ideal with a 1 x 1.5m sheet as you wouldn't waste the part under the clamps, really I'd prefer to waste a few cm in the bottom left rather than having to cut the sheet to size - for one thing until you've done the optimization you don't know what will be the smallest sheet size you can get away with.

[marct]

thanks for all the help much appreciated

[Merlin]

I use a Valiani Supreme but not had it long.
It seems to optimize for one sheet ok, took us a while to work it out
While I'm on - the Valiani always seems to optimize for the top right hand corner of the sheet.

James, that is why CMC distributors provide training packages. They will show you how to get the best out of the CMC.
Not fumbling around in the dark in the hope of getting a working solution.

Optimization will not 'nest' across multiple boards.

It is true the Valiani optimizes to the top right. Depending on the size of the mounts needed, then you may get what may seem like excess wastage left and bottom. There is a simple procedure (without cutting the sheet to size) to move the optimization left and down and moving that wastage to the top and right of the board.

[JamesC]

Thanks Merlin,

I've already e-mailed the engineer whose helping me but in the meantime I would be intrigued to know the solution (I guess I maybe look at the preview and work out the smallest board I can get away with and retype in the max dimensions (this would still potentially not leave the most useable scrap though because of the way everything is focussed in the top right still). Hopefully I can rotate it instead somehow.

The engineer is due in Newcastle some time later in the year and it's arranged he's going to include us on that visit - the earliest convenient opportunity. We are not going to buy the Matstylus or debosser unitl then. Until then we are also getting by sticking to basics and we now have the last config file that was made for the machine a few months ago. The latest software is more complex and some of it remains in untranslated italian (e.g. taglio esterno, essattemente are words I've translated so far) which does strengthen the need to get some training and explanation. The updated manual is much improved but still has gaps.

Thing is I have about 20 standard mount sizes (8 or so popular) and have 2 main colours that sell online in volume as parts of frames. Hence I could just about sit down on a monday and cut my weeks mountboards and having something work out the best fit across boards would be handy. Otherwise I'm not gaining as much efficiency and peace of mind as I could.

It seems a seperate program might be needed but not sure I'll find one that will nest inside too - maybe I can because I think it's quite common in CNC operation. Ideally one that is not influenced by what order I add the mountboards and can take exact instructions on how many I need to cut - not either have me add them one by one or just maximise the numbers. I do expect that most contract framers will usually want a lot the same size, and bespoke framers will vary greatly in colour and size normally so as not to cut across many boards at once often. Hence that's why the program seems to serve those needs better but I'm still surprised it won't do what I wanted.

When I have time I'll investigate the program listed in this post.

[Dermot]

James, I’m confused, why would you need a sheet optimising software for the Valiani when the machine already has this option within the standard software that comes with the machine.

Did the engineer who did the installation not show you this function on the machine!!!! …..That very strange behaviour by some who is supposed to know the machine or who you are suggesting knows the machine and how it operates.

Perhaps it is time that you were prepared to accept, you need to make some training investment in your business and that you need someone who knows about the Valiani machines to train you in it use.

Perhaps it’s time you stop posting unfounded negative comments about Valiani.

[stcstc]

dermot

i think you misunderstood

as merlin said valiani doesnt nest and optimise across multiple sheets

I belive gunnar is the only cmc that does it

[Merlin]

Does Gunnar nest and/or optimise across multiple sheets ?

[stcstc]

it optimises and nests multiple size mounts (including multiple opening mounts) across multiple sheets.

[Nigel Nobody]

Does Gunnar nest and/or optimise across multiple sheets ?

Yes. Even my 10/11 year old Rapido does that!

[JamesC]

Hence my surprise...

Sorry Dermot I've only spoken in facts and my comments about Valiani are completely balanced and informed from my experiences at the time form the facts available - positive and negative.

I had a demo of a new Valiani before an incredible "nearly-new" investment opportunity arose (together with the negative political ramifications) so knew the basic operations, and I also stated that the engineer is scheduled to arrive at the earliest opportunity for more set-up and training.

Along with the fact that the Valiani doesn't optimize across sheets that is two misinformed comments you just made and perhaps it seems we are more aware of the machine's capabilities than yourself despite having it a much shorter time. I've also proceeded with caution and sought advice at all stages before acting but if the software can't do it a trainer will make no difference.

So if you want to imply there is any defamation of character in this scenario you need to consider your own inaccurate comments first and foremost when trying to make someone else look silly.

I own a Valiani and gave very positive reasons about the extra functionality as a basis for that decision beforehand, last thing I want to do is devalue it but honesty is always my policy.

[Merlin]

Yes. Even my 10/11 year old Rapido does that!

Probably in my ignorance of not knowing the Gunnar Software, I am a little confused.

Why would you want to optimise across multiple sheets.
If you optimise for one sheet then surely those settings will carry over to the next sheet and so on...... Which all CMC's will do..

[emeraldart]

The benefit of optimising over several sheets is to reduce waste even further still.
You would only need to do it if you had several different sizes to be cut. Say you needed 50 units cut in five different sizes. Optimising one board will give you the best use for that board but optimising over several boards will give the best use of all boards which might be a mix of all sizes. Hope tis makes sense as it is easier think it than write it

[stcstc]

yea it makes sense to optimise across sheets to save wastage


its not a big deal for someone cutting a few mounts say less than 100

but for some production type envioroment it will make a huge difference

[Merlin]

I now understand if you are into 'production type' mode and you have multiple mounts of different sizes to cut.

As an internet mount cutter, I cut 1000's of mounts, yet have never needed to nest over multiple sheets.
I doubt that your average CMC owning picture framer would need to either.

[stcstc]

yea i guess

i have used it once or twice

and the fact its there, its seemless, you dont have to do anything to make it happen