Pencil drawing mountboard spec

[Bagel Framer]

Hi all,

Just a quick question - would it be ok to frame a pencil drawing with standard mountboard rather than conservation?

Thanks

[Roboframer]

Just a quick answer - No!

[Steve N]

Depends

[David McCormack]

Hi Bagel Framer.

Why do you want to use standard board instead of conservation? When you say standard board do you mean white core or the nasty virgin wood pulp stuff?

If you don’t stock conservation board then perhaps I can understand the hassle in ordering something in for just for one job, but a pencil drawing is an original and so should deserve a conservation approach including T-hinges.

So I guess my answer would also be no, which Roboframer said much quicker than me

[Graysalchemy]

I would have to agree anything which is an original should be treated as a conservation job.

I am a commercial framer and all my mounts are conservation board I wouldn't touch anything else.

[Steve N]

Sorry I was going to add more to my reply, but a customer came into the shop, and I pressed Submit instead of Save Draft, this is the first time I've had any time to amend the rather short reply.

Depends on what you class a standard mount as others have already said, also is the drawing a fine art or just a doodle or child's drawing done on carp paper which have enough acids and will deteriorate in no time no matter what you use. Basically do the best job with the best materials you and the customer agree on.

[Roboframer]

Discussing the value of artwork, (even if you are qualified to do so, and I know I'm not) the quality of the supports (papers etc) and mediums (paints, inks etc) used, .....more, is all time; time that can be saved if your default boards, even if the artwork is on a cornflake box and done in the cheapest felt tips ever made, won't assist in the demise of it all by self-destructing.

More time is saved if you do not have to agree with the customer on the quality of boards if you only use the best, this also simplfies stock/storage and quick/simple is good.

[stcstc]

robo

thats a nice way to work

but in practice, it means you loose customers on price?

ie you cheapest job will be more expensive than your competitors who are using other levels of materials

as i bet most of the customers wouldnt know or care the level of materials, would just compare the bottoms line and not like for like

[Not your average framer]

If I remember rightly, I don't think that John (Robo) has any local competitors left anymore. I'm with John on this, standard neutral pH mountboard is carp and selling carp, ain't no way to protect your good reputation!

[stcstc]

mark thats not what i am talking about though


we are talking about say the difference between selling artcare which is johns standard and selling daler conservation, considerabbly less money

[Roboframer]

We have a local garage we use for our servicing and MOT (they don't actually do the MOT, they collect the car, take it to a place that does MOTs and carry out any work that needs doing to get a pass and deliver it when passed) a couple of guys we've known for years and years, they employ a 'young lad' or two.

A lot of years ago I had a Renault 21, all electronic LCD dash, no needles and dials. The 5 (or whatever) speed heater went tits-up, we asked them to look at it and they said it's either a total new dash unit or they could just bypass the problem and give us a switch, on or off, our call.

We went for the bypass switch, the car had no re-sale value, the new dash would have been more than the car was worth.

As the crow flies, our next door business neighbour is a BMW dealership, they employ over 100 people and that bypass would not be an option.

[Roboframer]

we are talking about say the difference between selling artcare which is johns standard and selling daler conservation, considerabbly less money

Not to me!

But a point is that if you go (e.g.) by the FATG's levels of framing and standards of mountboard, then everything that comes in needs appraising to establish which level of framing/standard of mountboard is to be used - that takes time and (maybe) while you're still trying to work all that out with a (maybe) totally bewildered customer - I'm back in the workshop actually making money.

KISS!

[stcstc]

robo, why the no not me, you mean it doesnt cost any more for art care compared to one of the conservation quality marked boards like daler or arquadia?

or you mean it does cost any more to the customer?

i guess it depends on your market or percived market

if you have an established business where people just know what ya do etc, then having less range of prices is cool

the percived bit obvisously is important as, you wont always know what business your missing because of your percived pricing etc with the public


but in a wider market range where people need a wider range of prices, then only having top end stuff limits your customer base

again this stuff is all sooooo subjective based on your market and your marketing and market you aim for

[Roboframer]

I might not want the missing stuff, I might be too busy with the stuff I like to be doing just like the BMW dealership, and I might be getting discounts for hitting stated annual spends that makes these boards the same price or maybe pennies more - or even less - expensive than other boards that simply can't compare, and I might be passing these discounts on to the customer, or not.

Point I'm making though is the time I do not have to spend establishing things with the customer, other than colour and width of mount, which can be enough of a pain without geting in to Ph levels and all that bollox.

[Steve N]

More time is saved if you do not have to agree with the customer on the quality of boards if you only use the best, this also simplfies stock/storage and quick/simple is good.

We went for the bypass switch, the car had no re-sale value, the new dash would have been more than the car was worth.

You just out argued yourself, I give the customer the choice, I don't assume they want to have the best job done, I give the a informed choice, then it's up to them to choose.
As I have many competitors in the area and I can't have the audacity of only offering top grade materials.

[Graysalchemy]

Arqadia's conservation board is their standard range and only £3.67 a sheet. The cost of a mount pales into insignificance with the cost of moulding.

I would have a limited range of say 20 colours and buy my mountboard in bulk if you buy 125 sheets you will get quite a sizeable discount probably below £3.00 a sheet, in actual fact not far off what you would pay for colourmount cream core. Also you will have the competative advantage over your competitors of only offering conservation boards which will stay nice a bright for evermore, no discoloured bevels.

[stcstc]

i pay less than 2.50 stg for daler board

i recently had a visit from the arquadia rep, i told him i average about 300-400 sheets a month, he said i still need to pay catalogue price


needless to say i stayed where i am for boards!!!!

[Roboframer]

If your default supplier of board is Arqadia or Nielsen (and maybe others) you'll not have the option of standard board, not the stuff that yellows anyway.

I give the customer the choice, I don't assume they want to have the best job done, I give the a informed choice, then it's up to them to choose.
As I have many competitors in the area and I can't have the audacity of only offering top grade materials.

Customers get choice here too, just not on quality of mount board because I only carry one quality. I've got a few pretty cheap and nasty mouldings and I can do some cheap and nasty techniques too. I also do get involved in discussions about conservation or not, but only when it comes to glass and maybe mounting methods.

I do have competitors as well - not sure why Mark (NYAF) thinks otherwise, the shop in general has little, but 90% of the place is dedicated to crafts.

[Graysalchemy]

i pay less than 2.50 stg for daler board

i recently had a visit from the arquadia rep, i told him i average about 300-400 sheets a month, he said i still need to pay catalogue price


needless to say i stayed where i am for boards!!!!

I was paying £2.60 for taking 125 sheets at a time, and if I buy a palette of hayseed (500 sheets) then its about £2.00 a sheet. Perhaps the discount structure is different in Ireland but I would have thought with your business they would be bending over backwards to help you.

A few years ago I was using daler and it was about £1.80 a sheet. They were and probably still are trying to buy their way back into the mountboard market, unfortunately they didn't have a 3500micron board which I needed in the same colour so I switched to Arqadia.

[Framerpicture]

You'd have thought the Arqadia rep would bite your arm off for that level of business!