Customer NON collections

Liz · Post by **Liz** » Mon 28 May, 2007 3:39 pm

Does anyone know what the rules and regulations are relating to customer's work that hasn't been collected? Is there a specific time that it has to be kept for? Any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

Grahame Case · Post by **Grahame Case** » Mon 28 May, 2007 3:52 pm

The rules are different up here in Scotland

but it may be worthwhile looking for "Torts - Interference of Goods Act 1977" on google

Q. A trader takes in goods for a service (i.e. dry-cleaning/TV repair) and the consumer fails to collect them. The trader cannot store them forever, what should he/she do? A. It is advisable for the trader to have a notice up in the shop which is easily visible to consumers telling them how long he/she is prepared to keep the goods and how he/she intends to dispose of the goods after that time. Failing this, the trader will need to give notice to the consumer in accordance with the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977.

Incidentally, we have a very rare world war one handkerchief that has been awaiting collection, we are just waiting for the day when we can send it to Ebay,

(of course that is a long way off and it wont come to that i hope, just may need a rather friendly but polite letter stating that we will begin to add storage costs for uncollected items, chasing them up by phone first of all)

Dermot · Post by **Dermot** » Mon 28 May, 2007 6:06 pm

100% Deposit

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Mon 28 May, 2007 8:15 pm

New face; take a deposit and a minimum of a third.

If the customer wishes to pay up front, as many of ours do.

TAKE THE MONEY !

What more incentive do you need.

Framer Dave · Post by **Framer Dave** » Mon 28 May, 2007 8:50 pm

Yes, take full payment up front every time.

Regardless of what the law says, most of us are pretty nice people who won't throw away a customer's job the day it becomes legal to do so. Decide how long you're willing to wait and then send the customer a polite letter reminding her. And make sure you cover yourself. Keep a dated copy of the letter. If you have to escalate your efforts send it with a return receipt requested so you have proof of delivery. If it's uncollected and returned, keep it, unopened.

It may be a one on a million case, but for a few minutes time and a couple quid you can cover yourself easily.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Mon 28 May, 2007 9:27 pm

Storage costs if not collected by a certain date or disposal after a certain time and a reasonable amount of attempts to contact the owner.....

All pretty grey areas whether paid in full or not.

What would you do if your 'policy' - clearly stated on your invoice/work order - was that goods uncollected after 3 months will incur a storage/administration charge of £x per month and/or £x per phonecall/letter ..... then the customer turns up with a load of BS and the rest of the money (balance of original bill) Take that money or argue the toss?

To answer FoxyFramer's question "What more incentive do you need?" - well, for me, I need the incentive of being paid once the job is done.

DANGER - DO NOT FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE - I AM WEIRD!!

Anyone paying a deposit or worse still, everything up front - their stuff is left until the last possible moment!

I make it, they see it, they like it, they pay me - that's how I like it.

Mary Case GCF · Post by **Mary Case GCF** » Mon 28 May, 2007 9:39 pm

we are the same as John (Roboframer)

we wont take payment or a deposit in advance for custom framing jobs... Unless the customer wants to pay in advance that is.

However, for DIY frames and mounts we will take a 100% DEPOSIT from the customer, too many non collections.

people usually comeback to collect their work within a reasonable time period, if they don't we have their address and have been known to go "visiting"

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Tue 29 May, 2007 7:22 am

'Visiting' Mary? Friendly all year first footing or 'sending the boys round'?

Any 'can you just cut me a mount' jobs; it is always paid up front.

If the human race were totally trustworthy and reliable, the need to take a deposit or up front payment would be unnecessary. However it's not the case. Several times I have phone reminded customers with the 'Oh I had completely fogotten' reaction and I will be straight over to pick it up.
Only with a no show! Who's to know what makes some folk tick?

I just cannot imagine anyone willing to cough up storage charges on top of their framing bill. Car impounded, a different matter !

Another incentive Robo maybe the promise of framing being ready on day of collection; the joy of a job well done and the customer being dead chuffed with the work.

I find many have their payment card out ready before the invoice has been completed, so there is no question. It gets processed.

Grahame Case · Post by **Grahame Case** » Tue 29 May, 2007 8:34 am

just head round to their house and ask for payment, makes them feel guilty, of course we've really only done this once... a guy who had a £300 framing job in and never paid for it.

kj · Post by kj » Tue 29 May, 2007 8:34 am

we used to have the problem of "no balance due " jobs piling up - real pain in the arse . We no longer put Total/ deposit / balance information on the workshop docket - problem solved ! It also makes you feel wholesome when a large ,fully paid job , is completed ahead of schedule . Good p.r.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Tue 29 May, 2007 5:37 pm

foxyframer wrote:
Another incentive Robo maybe the promise of framing being ready on day of collection; the joy of a job well done and the customer being dead chuffed with the work.

Hmmmmmm ...... ready as promised - SOP; Joy of a job well done - well, OK - if it's something to challenge me - otherwise it's just work. Customer dead chuffed? Yes..... then they PAAAAAY MEEEEE!!

Regards the whole deposit/payment up front thing - with a constant stream of work in and out, and more stock than a small framing supplier - cashflow is never a worry. But again - this is not advice.

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Wed 30 May, 2007 7:42 am

We may have missed each other slightly on this one Robo.

Not every framer is as organized as we might be. Every framer is different. No one wants to have the embarrassment of not having the framing ready on time in front of other customers in the gallery; either because it got shoved to the back, or something wasn't in stock and the customer didn't get a phone call.

Come on, we all enjoy our work; must be one of the most satisfying money-earners around. Chocolate box top or a real brain teaser.

Whether framing has been paid for or not, it's still a pain to know that the work remains uncollected and we all suffer from that one, time to time.

Like your good self cashflow is not a problem. Not everyone is in this fortunate position. A lot of framers struggle.

Deposits or full payment are asked for only if they are a new face or the customer may look like a non-returner. A couple in late yesterday filled both criteria. Sixth sense in play.

Bill Henry · Post by **Bill Henry** » Wed 30 May, 2007 5:10 pm

This is a pretty gray area for us, too. We seldom take deposits; but nearly everyone returns (with a little prodding sometimes) and claims their piece.

But, my belief (and certainly I am not a legal expert) is that the “contract” for picture framing is not fulfilled until (1) they receive their art, and (2) you get paid in full for the transaction. We are in possession of their goods and so have a responsibility to keep it intact. Until they pick it up, they still own it, so disposing of it makes me a little uneasy – even when you have sent certified letters saying you will do so.

As FramerDave suggests sending a certified or registered letter with a signature receipt is a necessary first step. If the letter is returned by the post office unsigned, keep it unopened.

At that point, we need to decide if the cost of getting stiffed is worth a trip to Small Claims court. It varies considerably among counties and municipalities over here, but, in New Hampshire, the maximum amount you can file in small claims is $1500. The filing fee with the court is $35, which is recoverable if judgment is made in your favor. You cannot take a lawyer with you to Small Claims.

In twenty-two years, we have filed six such suits. The court notifies the defendant by mail of the court date. In five of the six times that we had initiated the suits, the customer was so embarrassed and so afraid of appearing in court (and, coincidentally, of seeing their names in the local newspaper), they showed up at the store (usually sending a spouse or friend), paid the balance (plus the $35), and begged us to withdraw the application to the court.

On the one occasion where we needed to show up in court, the defendant did not, so we were awarded a default decision in our favor. But, collecting our money was not possible, since the customer moved to a jurisdiction over which the local court had no power to enforce.

Public humiliation is a great motivator! Give it a try.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Sat 30 Jun, 2007 12:40 am

Bit late to the party on this one, but here's the FATG take on non-collection (cut-n-paste from their website).

"Can I dispose of customers' framed artwork if they don't come and collect it after six months? Am I allowed to charge storage for uncollected goods?

Only if you have followed the correct procedures. If so, you can dispose of it three months after first notifying your customer of your intention to sell the goods in writing. You need to be able to prove that you have tried to encourage the customer to collect the work, so copies of correspondence should be kept. Then you must send a registered letter describing the goods and stating your intention to sell them in three months' time (you must give a specific date). Specify the amount owed by the customer in your letter, and say that if the goods are not collected and paid for in full by the given date then you will charge storage at a given rate each day. Once you have disposed of the goods you are entitled to keep any money owed to you, plus storage and handling charges, but any other monies must be returned to the customer. Note that this procedure becomes invalid if there is any outstanding dispute over the goods."

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember the 'correct procedures' were on the website somewhere, but I couldn't find them on this visit.

Dermot · Post by **Dermot** » Sat 30 Jun, 2007 8:41 am

Áine

Do check out that the FATG suggestions from their website are legal under Irish law..........retail law in Ireland is not necessarily in line with the UK or for that matter any other EU country...........their are small but significant differences in most EU countries for retailers..........enough to make a difference...............how do I know this!!!........my wife has responsibility for some of the sales, end of life, warranty and returns requirements for EMEA (Europe Middle East & Africa) for the company she works for and works very closely with the other world teams and the areas of the world that they have responsibility for ..................don’t take what you see on the FATG site at face value.............non collection is unlikely to be of any big concern for you ever non the less if you are to have a policy do make sure it is the right one......

I know that the FATG will suggest that all is OK for Ireland but I think if it was put to the test you could find some nasty surprises....

Rgs

Dermot

PS..........how do you get the “Fadha” (SP) on a capital A I had to cut and past it from your post...........I could get it on the lower case á but not the capital A

Post by **John** » Sat 30 Jun, 2007 8:49 am

Á

AltGr-A

or

Alt-0193

Bill Henry · Post by **Bill Henry** » Sat 30 Jun, 2007 2:46 pm

Or, if you’re fortunate enough to have a Mac, “option-e, shift-a” = Á.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Sat 30 Jun, 2007 9:11 pm

Dermot wrote:.....don’t take what you see on the FATG site at face value.............if you are to have a policy do make sure it is the right one......

I agree, Dermot. I'm in the middle of developing a set of T's and C's to go on the back of my customer order forms, and my solicitor will be giving it the once-over before I put it into circulation.

My main problem is late collection rather than non-collection, and I want to be sure that any trading terms I define for the business in relation to storage charges and such are completely within the letter of the law - for my own comfort as well as for my customers. Its a pain, but it eliminates misconceptions and potential disputes further down the line. I wish all this stuff wasn't necessary but being a start-up business, I've got to keep an eye on the ol' cash flow.

EMEA, eh? (Scary memories of my former life in Corporatesville. Yuk!!)

PS: If you have CorelDRAW, a handy way to find the ALT- codes for accented characters is to open up the Symbols and Special Characters docker. Select the character you want by clicking on it, and the docker will display the character number.

Post by **prospero** » Sat 30 Jun, 2007 11:37 pm

I have had probs with non-collections in the past. Nowadays most of the framing I do is for regular trade customers. A lot of uncollected stuff ended up as raffle prizes for local charities, although I still have one from 1987.

My usual strategy for new customers is to give them an approximate completion date (I'm very busy but I'll try and squeeze it in , blah, blah......) but tell them to ring first and check that the job is ready. I
don't touch the job until they ring. If they ring I tell them it is half done and it will be ready the next day. One lady rang back two years later. I told her it would be ready on thursday.

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Sun 01 Jul, 2007 6:49 am

Which Thursday !!

Foxy