Can it be saved?

[DEEPJOY]

Hi All

Framing a mirror 30" x 40" in Simons 000J/0150 moulding.

When cutting on the Morso I could feel a twist in the moulding but with a second pair of hands we held it down flat against the Morso base plate, I made the cuts.
With the moulding being 66mm wide not counting the the overhanging lip of the mitre, I glue with a watered down wood glue (it covers quicker) and shot a line of 5 off 10mm wedges into the mitre.

First concern - I noticed slight bruising from the top underpinners pressure pad. (I always struggle with scalloped or concaved mouldings).

Flipped the finished frame over, dropped in the mirror and fixed in with strips of MDF and fletcher points. Finished off with a full sheet of MDF to cover the back before turning her back over.

Second concern - mitres on 2 corners had splayed open.

Stripped it all down to see what could be done in a heated frenzy.

Third problem - the heated frenzy was not the master framer / craftsman way, because I have now have 2 small scratches on the moulding.

Can this be redeened?
How do I fix the splayed mitres?
How do I make invisible the scratches on this moulding?
Will Simons be getting an extra order as I start again,, a costly set of mistakes I fear?

[IFGL]

Re order and get a credit on your twisted molding . you cannot use twisted molding on a mirror in if the corners had held it would have warped the mirror corners.

[IFGL]

Stupid phone puts the words where it wants to ,not where i want them.

[framemaker]

Twists are a problem, after pinning it is still going to move the way it wants, which will either give you a problem with the mitres (opening or one side raised) or the frame will be wonky (coming away from the wall at one corner)

Here is a pic of the moulding, (just to save anyone else trawling through the Simons catalogue on a holiday )

I would have stacked wedges front and back, with a couple in the middle. Easy to dent especially if the wood is typical quality.
But there is probably not much you could do anyway with the twist.

I always let the glue set for at least a few hours, usually overnight before fitting the picture or mirror in.

[Roboframer]

Yes, report the defected moulding and get a replacement and credit note - unless you've had it in stock too long.

[DEEPJOY]

Thank you all for your input.

So you do not think it is worth applying glue into the open wound, clamping and then fit 'L' shaped brackets to the rear?

Any ideas on the filling of the scratch marks?

I have emailed Simons, but with chopping up the moulding I wonder how supportive they will be? I guess I should have not continued.

Deepjoy

[Steve N]

All part of the learning process, if it's twisted send it back, we have all tried to use twisted moulding at sometime or other and we still have a go everynow and then, we never learn.
Some time depending on the size of finished frame and width of the mouding, if you glue and pin two opposing corners, let them set over night then glue and pin the remaining corners, again let them set overnight, it might work out ok. Cant see why you watered down the glue, you want it at it's max strenght for something like this, it's the glue that holds the joint togehter not the under pins, they are just acting as internal clamps until the glue sets

[Roboframer]

I have emailed Simons, but with chopping up the moulding I wonder how supportive they will be? I guess I should have not continued.

They should be fine - whether in several pieces or full lengths, it's no good for anything but samples.

[prospero]

Did you let the glue set before assembly? Watering it down will extend the drying time considerably and the bond won't be as strong.

As mentioned previously, frames on mirrors have to be dead flat.

On a mirror that size I would use a subframe. (See 'Big Jobby' thread). The subframe should be stronger than the frame. The outer frame only serves to hold the mirror to the subframe and it's strength is irrelevant.

[markw]

warped moulding will always produce a problem somewhere - you achieve perfect joints - you get a twisted frame. Always remember - as stated earlier - its the glue that holds the frame together not the wedges - they just help the glue. Ive always got a few useful objects hanging around the underpinner - rubbers - rags - reversed mouldings etc. they all come in handy at times with those bloody awkward profiles. As for the scratched moulding - well thats life isn't it. we've all been there.

[DEEPJOY]

Thanks All

There was a debate a while back, where a framer was telling us all of the many years in the business without once using glue, relying totally on the wedges. With this in mind, I thought my half-way house approach of watering the glue down to help and speed and ease of application would be fine. FULL GLUE FROM NOW ON.

Wax crayons - will they sort the scratch / bent out?

Regards
Mike

[prospero]

Wax crayons are very good for filling scratches. On some mouldings..... Liberon Gilt Cream is good - basically a wax crayon in a jar.

Generally a 'blotchy' finish as on the one in question makes it slightly easier to blend in re-touching. Having said that, it's quite a refined and very smooth sort of finish and doesn't look easy to fix.