Providing quotes to customers

[Twin Peaks]

As a new business I would be interested to know about how framers price up a job. I have a catalogue of mouldings with a vast array of different prices. Does anyone use a 'rule of thumb' method to decide the cost for the job. Plus I would be interested to know what sort of profit margins other framers work on.

[Spit]

Take a look at Estlite & BBEst, the link is on the left of the page - EPOS is the way to go nowadays.

[Twin Peaks]

Thanks Spit. I understand the Ashworth and Thompson software is based on Estlite system and seems more reasonable in price than some on the market.

[Spit]

I'm sure John would prefer you to buy direct from him

Joking aside, You can download a demo. Try BBEst if you just want the basics, see how you get on with it.

[osgood]

Does anyone use a 'rule of thumb' method to decide the cost for the job. Plus I would be interested to know what sort of profit margins other framers work on.

Anyone who is genuine and professional about this business should not use a 'rule of thumb' or any other guesswork method to work out their prices. John's software is excellent and you should try it out then buy it! Please do not be "cheap" and hunt around for something else because it is cheaper. You get what you pay for.

Very briefly, everyone's pricing needs to be based on their own business costs and the amount they need to make for themselves. You need to time all of your processes so that you know how long everything takes so that you can figure out you labour costs. You also need to know how many hours per week you are actually productive.

You should also check what others are charging for a couple of examples as a secondary matter so that you are not completely out of step with the industry.

There is no easy way to set up your own pricing system. If you think you can just guess, you are only playing with the business and treating it like a hobby.

[Moglet]

Hi TP,

I agree with Steve (Spit) about EstLite. It's really quick to learn and easy to use, and would be a great pricing "leg-up" for you. I started out without a computerised pricing system, and made some real howlers (in the customers' favour!) in the early days.

Also, Estlite integrates with the Pre-View Visualisation system, should you decide to expand your system in the future. EstLite is easily maintained, too, as pricing updates from several suppliers are available as downloads from the EstLite server site.

[Roboframer]

Here's a quote...

“If I spit, they will take my spit and frame it as great art.”

Pablo Picasso


Anyway - minefield.

All I'd say is don't mark up mouldings across the board - after £1 per foot (£3 per metre or so) I scale down to a minimum of a 3x markup incl VAT.

I'd never ever shift high end stuff otherwise and the same goes for speciality glass and lots more too - a line, or several, need(s) to be drawn between % profit and £s profit or all you'll ever shift will come from within the same price bracket and you'll restrict yourself to that bracket.

[Moglet]

.... the same goes for speciality glass .....

Some very useful tips on pricing speciality glass from Les ('realhotglass') in thread "General Discussion-TruVue Reflection control."

BTW, you need to watch labour costs for assembling very large frames.

Edited to add:

When deciding the rate at which you will charge out additional workshop time, it may be helpful to do a quick tot of your fixed overheads as a basis for working out your rates. (Variable costs (materials) should be covered in the basic framing quotation.)

[osgood]

Don't forget waste! The amount of waste is much more than people think, especially with mouldings. Minimum 30% should be allowed.

With mats you should recover the total cost of the mat plus a profit (plus your labour to cut it) on an 8 x 10 mat or even smaller. The theory adopted by some that the remainder of the mat will eventually sell is seriously flawed in the custom framing industry. In the majority of cases, it will remain in your storage rack for donkeys years, until you throw it out or give it away!

[realhotglass]

With mats you should recover the total cost of the mat plus a profit (plus your labour to cut it) on an 8 x 10 mat or even smaller. The theory adopted by some that the remainder of the mat will eventually sell is seriously flawed in the custom framing industry. In the majority of cases, it will remain in your storage rack for donkeys years, until you throw it out or give it away!

This very subject was broached on The Grumble in the past 4 days, and the upwards to 5 pages (so far) of replies has some interesting pricing techniques applied.
http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=26354