Getting a very smooth surface on obeche

[rhiannon framing]

I have several canvases to frame in an L shaped obeche. My customer wants a very smooth high gloss black finish. Any suggestions on how I can get the very smooth finish so that I can't see any grain in the wood? I was planning on using black acrylic paint finished with a gloss medium. On its own though I can still see the grain.

thanks,

Sharon

[Graysalchemy]

Why not use a pre finished white or black one, key the surface and then spray with a black gloss lacquer spray. You are simply not going to get that sort of finish with obeche IMHO.

[Not your average framer]

It's not what you put on top of your finish that creates a smooth finish, but what you put underneath the finish. The pores in the obeche will simply suck up the paint that you put onto the obeche, so first you have to block and fill the pores in the surface of the obeche.

A good quality sandable primer sealer with a high solids content will block and fill the pores. As before the pores will suck up the primer sealer, but this time, the high solids content in the primer sealer will get sucked into the pores as well and create a build up of solid material on the surface of the obeche and in the pores. Acrylic sanding sealer is a good possibility for a sandable primer sealer, but there are others as well, including Prosperro's favourite "Wickes ripple coat".

After the primer sealer has fully set, it is time to lightly sand the surface of the primer sealerto create a smooth surface without sanding away enough primer to expose the bare wood. Now wipe the sanded surface clean with a lint free cloth and some methylated spirit to remove any residual dust, or grease from handling and repeat with a second coat of primer sealer. Lightly sand the surface again and clean the surface once more with methylated spirit.

Then you can proceed with painting your surface, smoothing down between coats. High gloss finishes required considerable skill and practice to get a good result, so take your time and don't try and rush things. BTW, not all acrylic paints are the same and the better quality ones generally produce a better result. Several thin coats of paint will be preferable to applying one thick coat.

I hope that this helps.

[Framemaker Richard]

"very smooth high gloss black finish"

This is the only way I know:

1. cut and join frame
2. fill/sand corners if required
3. size wood with rabbit skin glue
4. brush on minimum 4 layers of gesso (RSG and whiting)
5. sand gesso until perfectly smooth
6. spray primer
7. spray paint colour
8. spray lacquer

[prospero]

It's not impossible to do it from bare wood by hand but veering in that direction. An enormous amount of work and the end result might be disappointing.

Find the right shaped profile with a coating already applied. Cut and join the frame and gently radius the corners and make good any gaps. You need to provide a surface that will take a spray paint. Forget hand-brushing it. Some finishes will take car paint spray with minimal prep - just a wipe over with thinners to remove greasy marks. Any gilding came be stripped off with acetone usually.
Once you have a good base, apply several coats of black primer. It dries almost instantly, but leave a good few hours before sanding with very fine paper and applying a few more coats. This process will highlight any small defects which should be corrected at each coat. When you think it's as flawless as you can get it, apply a few top coats of gloss. After this you need to spray coats of clear lacquer - rubbing back between coats with every fine sandpaper - 600 grit at least. The first 2-3 coats will show a very deep gloss. After that subsequent coats will produce progressively less and less improvement. Basically, keep applying clear coats until you reach the level of gloss you seek.

Rattle-cans are OK up to a point, but you can't beat a decent spray gun. You can mix your own paint dilution and control the spray pattern and pressure. Anyone can use a spray gun, but to produce an immaculate surface takes skill and practice. I would almost be tempted to get a local garage to spray it up. Preferably one with a dedicated spray booth with heaters and all the latest tech.

That's the hard way.


If the customer is bent on a dead smooth surface then they will have to swallow the not inconsiderable expense of creating it. The easier way is to do a slightly textured surface using black acrylic gesso. Using this it would be preferable to start with a bare wood. Fill the grain by brushing on diluted fine-surface polyfilla. Work it well in with scrubbing action (use an old brush) and let sit a few mins before wiping off excess with a damp soft cloth. ('J-cloth' types are great for this). When thoroughly dry, sand it down with fairly rough sandpaper. Apply the gesso - first coat fairly thin just to colour the wood. Then slap it on thick and work over using random criss-cross brush strokes. This way you don't have to agonise too much over slight imperfections. The gesso will take a day or two to fully harden, but it can be polished to quite a high sheen using steel wool /wax/yellow duster. A deeper gloss can be achieved with a few coats of acrylic gloss varnish.

It may not be to some people's tastes - that's just a personal thing. To my mind a textured finish is more appealing visually than a dead smooth one. But this apart, the latter method is a lot easier to execute than all the labour involved in spraying. Not to mention the mess and fumes.
I would certainly present this as an alternative. Do a sample and show them.
When they get the quote for the sprayed job their hearts and minds may follow....

[rhiannon framing]

Thank you all for your advice. I will start with Wickes ripple coat and go from there.
enjoy the sunshine, Sharon

[Not your average framer]

I don't have adequate spray painting facilities and I don't always find that the finishes obtained from aerosol spray paints are always to my liking, so I have needed to develop my own methods of work within the limitation of my own facilities.

I'm not suggesting that any particular method is right, or wrong, but eventually we all find the method that we prefer and works for us for whatever reason, but I will say that Framemaker Richard has described the proper and traditionally corect technique. Where as I cheat and experiment quite a lot and do my own thing for my own reasons, (generally to save time, money, or both), but here's a few things which I find that work for me:

I like acrlic paints which dry matt, because I find these very easy to rub down with those nylon abrasive pads, (which are similar in appearance to those green nylon pan shiners), or with 0000 grade steel wool . It is generally the best quality acrylic paints which dry matt and I'm sorry, but they usually are also more expensive.

My assumption is that they dry matt, because they contain a higher solids content in the form of pigment powder. I can't prove that this is true, but those cheaper acrylic paints which dry glossy often do not seem to rub down to such a fine, smooth finish. To save money, I often mix a cheap, but reasonable quality acrlic paint with the same amount of a chalky emulsion paint to increase the solids content in the paint.

For smooth gloss finishes, I apply the paint in thin coats using a fine sponge and wiping the paint on using light pressure and a not too heavily paint loaded sponge. This is to avoid problems with brush marks!

Generally, I don't like gloss varnishes, or lacquers all that much, so If I need a gloss finish I prefer to use french polish instead, rubbing down in between coats with 0000 grade steel wood and nuetral black bison wax in between coats and buffing off the wax befoe adding the next coat. For best results, french polish should be applied in the traditional manner using a pad of lint free cotton fabric.

French polish is one of the best ways of obtaining a truely high class gloss finish and with practice, you can get a superb really deep gloss with french polish. I add about one teaspoon of danish oil to a 250 ml bottle of french polish. This is called "bodying up" and it builds up the thickness of each coat, adds to the apparent level of gloss and helps to prevent the well know misty "bloom" effect when french polish is exposed to excess humidity. It is still a good thing to protect the final coat of french polish with a coat of wax folled with a good buff up to a nice shine.

Don't be tempted to add any more than one teaspoon of danish oil, or you will be waiting a very long time for the french polish and danish oil mixture to fully set between coats and it may remain sticky to the touch for some time. I often speed up the drying process with a little heat, but the danish oil still leaves a slightly sticky feel until a few minutes after the moulding has been allowed to return to room temperature.

[Just Paintings]

The grain of obeche definitely needs sealing and filling. I would use a sanding sealer, a number of coats and sanded between coats. For the gloss black I would use Japlac gloss black (used to be available from Homebase) manufactured by International. This is a high gloss enamal paint which is thicker than most paints.

[Whitewater Gallery]

Would this be any good?

http://www.arqadia.co.uk/productdetails ... mno=442650

They also have a wider and narrower version

Not sure if it is high gloss, I have used a white version that was.

[prospero]

There is gloss and then there is very glossy. So-called 'wet look'. The latter is one finish where hand-finishing is not the best way to go. You can hand-brush lots of coats of varnish, but the glossier you go the more any unevenness or imperfections in the surface will become apparent. You get what I call a 'toffee-apple' finish. A dead flat, smooth, hi-gloss finish is only really achievable on a machine.

[Not your average framer]

Yes, I think so too! Those wet look finishes often use some very high tech methods and materials!