Flimsy Poster

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Tue 04 Mar, 2008 11:57 pm

Hi,

I'm slightly embarassed to be asking another question so soon after my last one, but I'm used to framing smaller photos and stuff and someone has asked me to frame a large poster which is printed on fairly flimsy paper. They want it mounted so it'll obviously have to be stuck onto board (I use grey board). My question is - Spraymount or PVA (or other?).

I am frankly a bit nervous of ruining their poster. It's quite large (about 3 feet square) and must be on about 100gsm paper.

Thanks in advance,

Blaise

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 12:40 am

Hi Blaise, and welcome to the forum.
If you are worried about ruining it, leave off the idea of sticking it down, With a liner (undermount) that should not be necessary, and that'll remove the greyboard from the equation as well.

re sticking it down: its best to always try (try being the important part in real world framing) not to do anything to anything that you cant undo

spraymount is horrible stuff, and if you use PVA one side of the greyboard will shrink and it'll get a bend in it, then you are going to have to think about stiffening up the back, and a whole heap of other misery.

I would tend to mount it normally, use an acid free mountboard liner behind it to keep it flat, and even think about a foamcore back, to save some weight, even styrene glazing.

when its all made, leave it standing upright for a day before fixing on and sealing the back up. That way it'll allow everything to relax right way up and it'll be as flat as it is going to get by then.

any help?
kev

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 12:50 am

Do you have a dry mount press - vacuum or mechanical?

(Duh - course you do - what am I thinking of - you've already said you are framing professionaly)

By the sound of it artcare restore would be my solution.

Grey board?

Nah!

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 12:51 am

Hi again,

Yes - quite helpful. The only thing is it all seems a bit advanced! Perhaps I should go and look for another forum for beginners.

Anyway, the gist I'm getting is that there is a special way to stick it down without really sticking it down using something called an 'acid free mountboard liner'. I'll have a look in the Lion Catalogue.

The thing is, it's been rolled (and unrolled) rather a lot by the customer and is looking a bit - well - kinky.

I don't like Spray mount either (neither do my lungs) but it is at least reversable.

I don't think I'll PVA it. It could be a nightmare - glue everywhere and one soggy poster.

Blaise

Mary Case GCF · Post by **Mary Case GCF** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 12:56 am

Welcome Blaise. A mountboard liner is really just a piece of non-acidic mountboard or "barrier board" hinged to the top mount. Hinge the poster to that and it makes a poster sandwich.

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 12:56 am

[quote="Roboframer"]Do you have a dry mount press - vacuum or mechanical?
(Duh - course you do - what am I thinking of - you've already said you are framing professionaly)

By the sound of it artcare restore would be my solution.
[/quote]

No, I'm afraid I don't have a dry mount press yet. It's on my list, though. It's been rather an expensive first year in business!

I've looked up Artcare on the internet and it looks just the job - thanks. It looks like Lion don't sell it so I'll have to shop around a bit.

Blaise

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 1:03 am

[quote="Mary Case GCF"]Welcome Blaise.[/quote]
Thanks Mary.
[quote="Mary Case GCF"]A mountboard liner is really just a piece of non-acidic mountboard or "barrier board" hinged to the top mount. Hinge the poster to that and it makes a poster sandwich.[/quote]

Oh good, not too complicated then. It doesn't sound as though it would necessarily work at holding flat a much rolled and unrolled poster, but I'm only guessing.

I like the idea of the poster being stuck down. This Artcare stuff sounds good (but expensive).

Blaise

Mary Case GCF · Post by **Mary Case GCF** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 1:05 am

There's a wholesaler in Darlington who stock quite a lot of Artcare. Not sure if they would deliver to Wales though. If you want their details PM me. Off to bed now, but I can reply in the morning.

Mary Case GCF · Post by **Mary Case GCF** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 1:09 am

Artcare mountboard, I meant. They also stock Artcare Restore that John which is a foamboard with a heat-activated adhesive that is reversible, but you do need a vacuum press for that. Night night

Mary Case GCF · Post by **Mary Case GCF** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 1:10 am

that John mentioned. Oooooh, I need my bed, getting my mords wixed up.

Post by **prospero** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 2:02 am

Re. Spraymount. Try and rule it out of your life completely. It is made for temporary fixing. I think you'll find it reverses itself whether you want it to or not.

What you need to mount the poster is a huge vacuum press. Who's got one that will take a 36"sq poster?

Don't all shout at once.
A medium/large hardbed press could do it though, as you can mount big things in sections. Sooner than try wet-mounting I would check any local photo studios as they may be one who is tackled up to do the job.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 5:40 am

blaisehall wrote: I don't like Spray mount either (neither do my lungs) but it is at least reversable.

blaisehall,

No it isn't reversible. The chemicals in the adhesive will penetrate the fibres of the poster and even though sometimes a spray adhesive mount will fall apart there is still residue left there.
'Reversible' in this industry, means that the item could be restored completely to it's previous state.

As Prospero wisely recommended, eliminate spray adhesive from your life completely.

It sounds like you need some serious education and I would encourage you to do a course at a framing school to learn the basics of framing.

I would recommend that you do not use trial and error on anyones art or items. Wait until you know how to do a framing process, professionally, before you try to do it yourself.

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 9:54 am

Sounds to me like a job for Artcare Restore in a vacuum press. It's good at ironing out wrinkles and is fully reversable.

If you don't have a vacuum press then you could probably find another framer who would do the mounting for you quite cheaply.

Whereabouts in Wales are you?

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 11:23 am

osgood wrote: It sounds like you need some serious education and I would encourage you to do a course at a framing school to learn the basics of framing.

I would recommend that you do not use trial and error on anyones art or items. Wait until you know how to do a framing process, professionally, before you try to do it yourself.

I agree. I am looking for a course. But as to not trying processes until I've been properly trained - I am VERY careful with peoples art & items. I think about it a lot before I start and I don't do irreversable framing with unique items. Often (in the case of old family photos) I create a copy and frame that.

I'm not sure professional framers always get it right either. Upstairs in my hall I have a pastel drawing a friend did for me that I had framed in Bath by a (very expensive) framer who had won several awards in the industry. I remember he asked me if I wanted the drawing "dry mounted". Now, three years later, all I can see when I walk past the drawing are the enormous bubbles under the drawing.

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 11:29 am

osgood wrote: No it [Spraymount] isn't reversible. The chemicals in the adhesive will penetrate the fibres of the poster and even though sometimes a spray adhesive mount will fall apart there is still residue left there.

Thanks for telling me. I bought some from Lion, but it's sitting on the shelf still wrapped in bubble wrap. I've been loathe to use it.

osgood wrote: 'Reversible' in this industry, means that the item could be restored completely to it's previous state.

Ok, point taken. I only meant I'd be able to reposition the poster if it went wrong.

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 11:30 am

WelshFramer wrote: Whereabouts in Wales are you?

I'm in Carmarthenshire

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 11:40 am

Llanwrtyd Wells might be a bit far but you could always bring it over here to mount so long as it's no bigger than 32 inches x 40 inches. I'd charge about £10.

Before I obtained a vacuum press I had some work done by A-Frame in Brecon. I don't know how big their press is but they might be able to mount something bigger. Their phone number is 01874 610710.

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 1:50 pm

WelshFramer wrote:...you could always bring it over here to mount so long as it's no bigger than 32 inches x 40 inches. I'd charge about £10.

Thanks very much for the offer. I will bear it in mind.

Not your average framer · Wed 05 Mar, 2008 2:02 pm

Hi Blaise,

I would encourage you to get some training and if you can get some soon enough, you might be able to take the said poster with you to where you are being trained and use their equipment.

Training not only helps fill in the gaps in your own knowledge, but generally most trainers are willing to answer questions over the phone for previous trainees. Another big advantage with training is that it gives you confidence in what you are able to do.

I don't know what training facilities made be available in wales, but I will mention Mike Royall's "Royall framing school" (near Bristol), where I had some training quite soon time ago. His training was first class and he does not just go through the motions, but is looking all the time to make sure that you have understood each stage of what you have been taught.

Another possibility is training at Lion in Birmingham and the word is that they are very good too!

Very few (if any) of us, have got to where we are without training somewhere along the line.

blaisehall · Post by **blaisehall** » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 2:14 pm

Not your average framer wrote: Another possibility is training at Lion in Birmingham and the word is that they are very good too!

Thanks for the advice. I am looking at getting some training at Lion.