Oak supplier advice

[nolonstacey]

Hi,
I'm wondering where everyone gets their solid oak mouldings from. I'm finding more and more that a large portion of the oak I get just isn't usable. I get all my oak from either Centrado or Larson (usually the 20mm wide by 33mm deep or the 33mm wide by 20mm deep) but it's either very pink, red, has cracks in it, has knots that aren't the nice kind, and generally looks nothing like you expect oak to look. I find I have to stain ALL my oak now but staining some of the red coloured stuff just seems to make it look more red.

I then see posts online from framers where the oak looks lovely (I can't remember the last time I had a length of oak that I thought looked lovely). they don't look stained, it just looks like better quality. That made me think maybe it's being sourced elsewhere.

I have attached two photos, one is the typical red coloured oak I seem to get. The other photo is from a recent chunkier 47x22mm moulding (also from Centrado) and that was lovely. I assume they use the nicer stuff for the bigger mouldings?

I am considering switching to oak veneers, but some people are still funny about veneers, so it'd be great to still be able to offer oak that actually looked like oak.

[Tudor Rose]

We'd recommend Rose & Hollis.

https://www.roseandhollis.co.uk/

We get most of our oak from them.

[nolonstacey]

We'd recommend Rose & Hollis.

https://www.roseandhollis.co.uk/

We get most of our oak from them.

Thanks Jo, Is their oak noticeably better? I wondered if all oak used for mouldings had maybe gone this way now

[Not your average framer]

I've never had a bad batch of oak from Rose and Hollis yet, of course you do get variations, but all natural wood is like that. I like to match the pieces of oak within a single frame and consequently buy all my natural wood mouldings in batches, so I can match bits from different lengths. I get my oak from both Rose and Hollis, or from Simons and don't have any significant level of wastage.

[nolonstacey]

I've never had a bad batch of oak from Rose and Hollis yet, of course you do get variations, but all natural wood is like that. I like to match the pieces of oak within a single frame and consequently buy all my natural wood mouldings in batches, so I can match bits from different lengths. I get my oak from both Rose and Hollis, or from Simons and don't have any significant level of wastage.

That's good to know Mark! I always expect variations, but this is beyond variation. I have SO much wastage. And strangely, even though I've only every bought oak from two suppliers, I tried to batch up all my left over lengths of 33mmx20mm into two piles the other day, one for Larson, one for Centrado, but I somehow ended up with 5 different piles. The sizes aren't even remotely consistent. I was trying to get just one 11x14" frame out of maybe 30 offcuts, but couldn't find 4 pieces that I would have been happy to cut and join together!

[JFeig]

Nolan, I notice that you are not clarifying the type of oak that you are ordering. Are you ordering your moulding by asking for "oak" or "white oak"?

There are 2 major variants: white oak and red oak. They are different species. If you have not have had a chat with your supplier, this might be a good first step as to what your are receiving vs what your expectations are. The second photo appears to be white oak, while the first appears to be red oak.

[nolonstacey]

Nolan, I notice that you are not clarifying the type of oak that you are ordering. Are you ordering your moulding by asking for "oak" or "white oak"?

There are 2 major variants: white oak and red oak. They are different species. If you have not have had a chat with your supplier, this might be a good first step as to what your are receiving vs what your expectations are. The second photo appears to be white oak, while the first appears to be red oak.

As far as I'm aware, Larson and Centrado don't give this option. None of the main framing suppliers mention anything about different oak types in any of their literature.

[Gesso&Bole]

I buy from Rose & Hollis and Centrado for oak. I have found both to be good quality, although the colour and grain pattern does change from length to length.

As a matter of course I sand, shellac and wax oak, and often stain it too, in order to get a good finish. But this is part of the job if you are using an unfinished moulding.

I do occasionally use some of the Centrado oak veneers, which give a more consistent finish, and are a good option for budget conscious customers, or if you don't want to get deep into hand finishing.

[nolonstacey]

I buy from Rose & Hollis and Centrado for oak. I have found both to be good quality, although the colour and grain pattern does change from length to length.

As a matter of course I sand, shellac and wax oak, and often stain it too, in order to get a good finish. But this is part of the job if you are using an unfinished moulding.

I do occasionally use some of the Centrado oak veneers, which give a more consistent finish, and are a good option for budget conscious customers, or if you don't want to get deep into hand finishing.

That's interesting that you find Centrado to be good quality. Maybe I'm being too picky. The oak veneers now seem to cost more than the raw oak. Centrado's new oak foil veneer is lovely. It has a great texture to it too!

[Gesso&Bole]

These days I don't buy much finished moulding, but when I do, I have a higher expectation that it will be virtually all useable. (Which isn't always the case)

With unfinished moulding I fully expect to have to cut around a few imperfections, and to finish to the specification I want. Also from Centrado I do always buy it in 'pack' quantities so that I am more likely to get lengths from the same batch.

[JFeig]

You might have to go up a notch in the food chain of you suppliers to determine what they are actually are selling, any old oak, white oak or red oak if they actually know what they are selling. The latter might be the actual answer(they don't know what they are selling).

https://www.cabinetdoors.com/white-oak- ... er%20woods.

[Tudor Rose]

Thanks Jo, Is their oak noticeably better? I wondered if all oak used for mouldings had maybe gone this way now

My understanding is that the global market for oak has had a shift since 2020 so there has been some change in sourcing oak for the UK moulding market. Some is far more noticeably “pink” than it used to be. Rose & Hollis oak has, from our experience, had less of a problem with this.

[Justintime]

Rose and Hollis here too. There are various shades and patterning that turn up. It helps to ask them to check for matching and straightness when necessary, which means that they'll take more time picking it and the do their best to send you all similar looking sticks in an order. Never had an issue that they didn't sort out.

[prospero]

I don't use much Oak, but I can heartily endorse Rose & Hollis. If you speak to them nicely they would probably
pick out all matching bits.

* You might want to try Ash for light finishes. It's a tad easier to work with and tends to be more consistent.

[JFeig]

You might want to try Ash for light finishes. It's a tad easier to work with and tends to be more consistent.

good point.

[bang]

I use lion but will often get it on their chop service. I've found it's more likely to be free from blemishes that way and cuts down on my wastage if I don't have to chop round anything.

[jon buck]

Hi

I mentioned it to Larson Juhl laast year saying how pink the oak was coming to me . fobbed off with oh. its natural wood . In the past it was a case of sanding and waxing and it looked like oak.
Have tried all sorts of stains ,oils etc still not looking good.

Will give Rose and Hollis a go.

[nolonstacey]

Apologies for not responding but for some reason I periodically can’t log in for weeks and then it magically starts working again. I switched my oak to Lion and it’s so much better. I hadn’t noticed but they actually state on their website that their oak is American white oak.

[NTG999]

Apologies for not responding but for some reason I periodically can’t log in for weeks and then it magically starts working again. I switched my oak to Lion and it’s so much better. I hadn’t noticed but they actually state on their website that their oak is American white oak.

PM sent

[girlfromkent]

I know I'm late to the party on this discussion but I also have this problem. Drives me nuts. I've got quite a bit of 'oak' stock that looks just like the ash version of the same moulding, in tone at least.

When I've brought it up, different suppliers blame either the fact no one was planting trees during Covid (?!) so all the oak now is younger, sounds like BS to me, or Brexit resulting in changes to supply chains. Who knows.

I use Rose and Hollis and Lion regularly for most things, and rate them both highly, but still find I'm afraid that their oak is too pale and pink for me. I don't know where Wessex get their oak from but it's usually much better. Knotty and occasionally split, but a much better colour. Pick your poison. Pw87 is particularly nice.

We use Liberon clear beeswax on oak which warms it up a bit. If anyone can recommend a stain for oak that looks natural I'm all ears.