pricing on the calculater

[greenfields]

in my new shop i am pricing jobs on the calculater
job no1 moulding is 1.00 pound a foot .
5 ft of frame=£5.00
multiply by 9 =£45.00
or a box frame at £1.65 for the both frames
5ft of frames
multiply by 6=£49.50 now there is no glass or backing board
is this right if so can someone give me some advice on pricing with the calculater
i tried bbest but to no avail

[JFeig]

Using a calculator is a great tool for doing your math.

However, can you be more informative as to what you are offering in terms of materials, their costs and what type of service you are really offering to your clients. It all seems a little too simplistic to me as there are so many variables in offering custom picture framing.

I am an advocate of a computer pricing system of your choice. It can either be a home made spread sheet, or a sophisticated POS program.

[Bill Henry]

My first thought is that at £1.65 / foot, your mark up of 6x may be too low.

For your £1.00 moulding, you are making a profit of £40, but with the £1.65 moulding, you have only increased your profit by £1.25.

Are you comfortable with or have access to spreadsheets? If, so, send me a PM and I may be able to get you started. I have written a few brief primers about how to price mouldings, mounts, glass, etc. They were obviously written with US$ in mind, but you should be able to glean some ideas from them to get you started.

[fineedge]

15 yrs ago with a calculator -
say I paid R 30 per metre (SA money)
step 1 - 30 X 3.5 = 105.00
step 2 - length + breadth X 2 X 105.00 = price of frame
step 3 - length X breadth X 1.5% for mount (X 2 for double)
step 4 - length X breadth X 1.1% for glass
step 5 - add it all up and then add 10% for sundry ( cleaning materials, hanging attachments etc)

this worked for me for a year or two but eventually took an excel spreadsheet, worked out formulas which provided more profit and had facility for more things which get done ( dry mounting, adding accents, slips, stretching, boxing etc) presto - been doing the spreadsheet for years now

[The Crofter]

Similar for me but it soon became clear that automation was the way forward. I wrote my own package using Filemaker and this handles all my materials, pricing & invoicing.

The actual cost of mountboard, glass, backboard etc is calculated per square millimeter. A markup is applied that reflects the delivery cost and profit level. Moulding is similar but calculated per linear millimeter. All other stuff such as fixings, finishings etc are marked up according to cost and time to do the job. I have a seperate display that shows the raw material costs and profit and the final cost can be tweeked to take account of business expenses time etc.

The only information I need to enter is the artwork dimensions, moulding and mountboard styles etc. This is quick and painless and most options use drop down lists. I als have a "nudge" box that can be used to raise the final price to reflect additional work or lower the price (!) when offering a discount. Generally it only takes a minute to provide a price/quote. I doubt you could achieve that with a calculator.

It has been said before that having a program to do the calculations in front of the customer will also show a professional edge to your business and you will be able to offer consistent pricing. I have no experience of other programmes such as EstLite but, given the excellent level of support on this forum, why not give it a go. Don't worry if you are not PC savvy (no offence) it is worth the effort in the long run.

[TheFrameShed]

I am just about to open 'The Frame Shed' so am in a similar position to yourself. After much head scratching (now bald), looking at this forum and looking at my dads Wessex costing sheets(now blind) I set up an excel spreadsheet (actually a google document so that I can access it from anywhere) to calculate costs. This is quite simple but you have to get a few things exactly right otherwise the whole thing goes awol

Moulding
To calculate, take the cost in pence per ft and multiply by 3.281. This creates a cost per metre which if you then divide by 100 gives you a per cm cost. Multiply this by total length of moulding required to get your trade cost.
Example. Cost per pence in ft =50p therefore £1.65 per m or 1.65p per cm x 100cm(10x8 ) + £1.65 trade cost of moulding.

Mountboard/Backing/Barrier Paper/Glass
To calculate, take the cost of sheet and divide by sq cm(roughly). On average 4' x 3' ft sheet are 10,000 sq cm. So if your sheet cost id £3.50 then you per sq cm cost is 0.035 in pence. Again multiply this by total sheet used. Here's an example. A 10x8 is 520 sq cm so 520 x 0.035 = 18.20. Then divide by 100 to give you a pence rather than pounds cost = 18.2p
Do the same equation for mountboard/backing/barrier/glass

Sundries
Add on a set cost of something like 10 times your actual cost. On most frames I would add £1+vat

These figures then give you your total trade cost - YOUR MOST IMPORTANT FIGURE - (don't forget to add VAT if applicable) From here you can then charge your markup depending on customer/quantity. Friends and family might be at 300%, loyal customers at 500% etc.

These percentages sound high but don't be put off and price too cheaply. You can use this method to charge as you feel appropriate. As an example a 10 x 8 frame at 50p per foot with mount, backing, glass and sundries comes out at a trade cost of £3.84 - At 300% this is equates to retail of £8.38, at 500% retail is £12.92 - still looks very good value to the customer doesn't it? Try calculating at 5/6/700% and see what 'feels right'

I am computer literate with Photoshop and InDesign etc but when it comes to spreadsheets I was a complete beginner,if I can work out a few formulas believe me, anyone can. I now have a spreadsheet where I enter four or five pre-determined figures and hey presto, excel does the rest in seconds.

All the best and good luck
Simon

[Bill Henry]

For me, one of the most difficult parts of finding my legs in the picture framing business was determining equitable and reasonable retail prices. If you ask 50 framers about their pricing scheme, you’ll probably get 68 different answers – and none of them wrong.

I choose to stay with spreadsheets for various reasons, although there is a compelling reason to go with a POS system, like Estlite (very well thought of even on this side of the world). A POS will help you with a consistent, reproducible retail pricing, automatic updating when your wholesale costs go up, inventory control, customer data bases, etc.

You might consider investing in such a system rather than tying up your money in inventory. It will probably pay for itself in a very short time.

In my experience, salespeople and industry representatives tend to suggest retail mark ups that are below the industry standards. The cynic in me believes that they do this in order to keep your retail prices low so that they can sell more of their product to you.

A very strong suggestion: Don’t try to become your local discount framer! You will price yourself out of the game in a very short time. Find out what your local competitors are charging but don’t try to lowball them. Find what works for you to give you a reasonable income.

[The Crofter]

There were two main issues for me. Firstly I decided that I am worth £15 per hour and this applies to any professional work I do - framing. photography, IT etc. The second was to define my framing "fair price" structure. This was hard as I had to hit the mark straight away or people would question why my prices had suddenly increased by x%. Comparative framing prices were discussed on this forum earlier in the year and as expected the results were quite varied.

For me, my geographically isolated situation and mainly local sales suggested that I could not charge Inverness prices (100 miles away) and expect to stay in business. Although my prices are low they reflect the local area "spending power" and I get a lot of repeat business from those who are not so well off. This works for me, I make a profit on frame materials as well as additional profit to cover the £15 per hour rate.

The only time these calculations go out of the window is when I sell a framed piece of my own work, currently just photographs. The frame cost is still applied but there is a substantial addition for the picture. This represents the value I set for my own work and reflects the time and effort that went into shooting, editing and printing the pic.

The price "nudge" button is very useful for this type of sale.

[barton]

Personally. I would say don's mess around with the calc or the spreadsheet.

Get your self estlite, well worth the price, consistent. easy to use, records of sales, easy job queue, plus gives professional look to all quotes and reciepts.

Links into all main supplied for set up of pricing and easy maintainace

We have being using it for a year plus. I would not hestitate to recommend it.

Preview pays for its self too, upgrades to double mounts are made easy with preview.

(no i am not on commission from John, but am happy to start to get some John