Seeking advice on plastic glass

[frame_in_spain]

Hi, this is my first forum post (so please be kind!) and I just a have a question or two about glass - or rather my lack of glass!
I've just moved to Spain and will be opening my framing business in the new year. I have all of my equipment and materials arriving on Thursday and have found a good supplier of mouldings and mountcard here. I was initially told that I could purchase my glass from this supplier but when I ordered my moulding stock yesterday, they informed me that they only stock plastic glass (arraglas) which is pricey at just over 14 euros a sheet (150cmx80cm). I went to a local glass workshop, where I can buy picture glass, but again this is expensive at 23 euros for 120cmx120cm or 49 euros for the same size, non-reflective. So it looks like for cost purposes, I am better off buying the plasic glass.
My question is: What are peoples general views on using plastic glass only? Are there any partiular items that you would avoid using plastic glass when framing? And through lurking, I'm aware that there are one or two framers based in Spain that use this forum, so do you have any tips on where you get your glass from? I'm based in south Costa Blanca.
Thanks in advance for any help.

[prospero]

Hola y bienvenida frame_in_spain. (You lucky person. )

I seem to think Arraglass is polycorbonate. Which is expensive stuff, but is virually unbreakable.

[John]

Welcome to the forum frame_in_spain.

I don't like working with plastic as it tends to be a dust magnet. But perhaps with the right techniques this wouldn't be such a problem. Perhaps others who use it regularly could share their tips.

[Bill Henry]

I cannot speak to the cost of glass vs. plastics in your case, but most framers I know absolutely hate working with acrylics.

As John has noted, acrylics generate a static charge which will attract every speck of dust in the northern hemisphere. In addition, plastics tend to be very soft and scratch very easily, so attempting to clean dirt and debris with standard paper towels and glass cleaning solutions end up making the surface of the plastic worse.

There are some instances where plastic glazing is warranted like for outdoor displays, frames that get transported frequently (for trade shows, etc.) or animation cels, but for the majority of framing, you will probably want to use real glass. Indeed, it is heavier than acrylics, but the ease of handling it makes it the glazing material of choice, in my opinion.

If push comes to shove, you may look into using standard SSB (single strength, window glass) rather than glass manufactured specifically for the picture framing trade. I cannot imagine that it would be more expensive than plastic glazing.

Oh, by the way, welcome to The Forum.

[robbiez]

Not sure what arraglass is but we use stacks of 2mm clear extruded acrylic which is just as good as glass - crystal clear and scratch resistant. We have just got a Drytac vertical saw to cut it but previous to that we cut using the score blade on keencut system 5000 - make sure you use the BACK of a standard keencut mount cutter blade and it is thicker and wont break as easy. If you score it right & once only it should snap in one go - takes a bit of practice.

It does attract a lot of dust but before removing the film wipe it with a slightly damp cloth to remove the static.

14 euros a sheet seems quite cheap if you are only buying a few sheets and compared to glass in spain it is very cheap. In the UK Acrylic is usually 3 times the price of glass - so I would get a sample of the arraglass before making a commitment.

Rob

[framejunkie]

Welcome to the FF!

I find an anti-static gun invaluable for fitting up frames with any kind of plastic glazing. Mine is like this -

http://www.milty.co.uk/i94c166/MediaCar ... mennum=166


As for the joys and woes of plastic glazing, I'd go mad if i had to use it all the time - it's a pain. I've not come across arraglass. I find Styrene to be revolting - it tends to craze when flexed even only slightly, and looks cheap and nasty. I use acrylic when i have to use plastic. The standard cast acrylic is good; the scratch-resistant stuff is better; for high value artworks UV Acrylic is great, but very pricy - I've got a monster frame to make next week and the 1.6x2.5m piece of 5mm UV acrylic will cost me about £450.

Don't use plastic glazing for any medium which is not well adhered to the substrate, eg soft pastel drawings, or charcoal drawings - unless they are heavily sprayed with fixative(which will ruin them anyway!) - I've seen stuff jump a 1" gap from artwork to glazing in a box frame, and once its there you've got to open the thing up and find a way to clean the acrylic without wrecking it.

Generally with acrylic my method is to peel the covering off at the last minute, fire the anti-static gun all over the surface - this can take several minutes for a large frame - you can tell when the static level is low - hold the back of your hand close to the glazing - if its still very staticy you can feel the effects on the hairs*. Anyway, get the thing dusted off with a blow-gun(any kind of cloth on the surface risks damaging the acrylic)and get it all put together quickly.


* - If you suffer, as i do, from Lunar Affective Disorder tomorrow you will be able to use the palm of your hand for this- ain't that right Prospero?

[JFeig]

I would give a stab at reverse engineering finding a glass distributor, by contacting a glass manufacturer and asking for a distributor close to you. Guardian Glass has a plant in Spain. I do not know if there any others.

[Apollo]

Hi Robbiez, I was wondering if you could recommend a supplier for the 2mm acrylic that you mentioned. Your stuff sounds pretty good compared to the styrene that I have used. In addition, I would be grateful if you could give me an idea of the price you pay per sheet.

I have tried glass&mirror but they seemed a bit sniffy when I told them that I didn't have an account with them yet. Obviously have too many customers already!

Thanks
Terry

Originally sent as a pm.

P.S. Not sure if you are getting this, as it tells me that its sent, then returns me to outbox with message still stored! Dunno what I'm doing wrong- sent PM's before no problems.

[ross]

We avoid acrylic like the plague - only use it when items have to be transported, or required for health and safety reasons

On the subject of glass, what is the standard size of clear float glass used - we currently use 2mm clear float for sizes up to 914 x 1220mm and beyond that use 3mm clear float. The reason for asking - received advice today from our glass supplier of 2 impending price increases for 2mm clear - 7.5% from 1/12/08 and a further 7.5% increase from 1/2/09

Justification for rises - lower dollar is impacting on his buying of imported product and also claimed some manufacturers worldwide were withdrawing from the 2mm market because of costs of production - anyone know why this might be the case

Ross

[frame_in_spain]

Thanks for all of your replies (and welcomes!), you've been really helpful.
We took a visit to the nearest framing shop today, Spanish owned, about a half-hours drive away and found that they too only use plasic, and do not frame with glass ever, so perhaps this is the norm in this area? Also contacted a few other Spanish framing suppliers and the same story - they only supply this arraglas stuff. I'm going to keep hunting for reasonably priced glass, but if all fails then I may have to use plastic and offer glass to customers explaining that this will be reflected in price. I'm taking note about avoiding plastic with pastels, charcoal etc, and will offer this advice to any customers who bring the work in, and ultimatley the choice can be theirs - they can pay extra for the glass if they wish.
On a less-stressful note, all of my equipment arrived today so the next week or so will be spent getting the workshop in order. I now have everything I need except glass! I even have a few customers lined up (word seems to travel fast around here, next door neighbour told all the ladies at her coffee morning that we were setting up, it's a bit like Coronation Street.)

Thanks again