Dismantling old frames

[pixnut83]

L&G,
I have a few old frames rescued from Charity shops. I aim to dismantle some of them and remake/resize them because they are good wood (e.g. a couple are genuine old oak) and very much unlike today's sections. These frames are nailed through the mitres but some of the joints have partly separated. Unfortunately the nails look as if they have become overly intimate with the wood. I'd like to separate the bars so I can re-mitre the ends to desired lengths, clean up the wood and remake the frames, properly glued and underpinned.
What's the best way of getting an old frame apart? I don't want to cut the nails 'cos that leaves an unknown length of metal ready to wreck my blades...
Thx,
John.

[Roboframer]

Buy big ones and make smaller ones from them - you don't want the holes showing where the nails were and have to worry about re-filling them (do you?) Therefore you don't have to worry about any bits of nails left - just re-mitre beyond them.

Use an old hand/hacksaw to make sure your lengths are nail-free before offering them up to your morso.

[prospero]

Beware of broken pieces of rusty nails embedded in the wood. The corner nails are usually big square-cut ones, but there can be lots of smaller ones along the rebate. Drill them out to be on the safe side. Even a tiny piece will make a nasty chip in a Morso blade.

[gesso]

Try re gluing and using a band clamp as they've probably warped by now there's not much use breaking them apart and getting them back together.

[Bill Henry]

This will be a bit difficult to explain …

We’ve had pretty good luck by closing one of the clamps on our right angle vise all way. Place the inside of the rebate against the back of this front clamp. Secure the other side of the frame to the vise in the usual manner.

Slowly, but firmly, begin to open this “closed” vise. Very quickly, the glue bond in the rebate will break open. If the brads are cross nailed, then switch positions (right to left or left to right) in the vise, and open the vise a bit more. Eventually, by going back and forth, the miter will open wide enough and eventually free the brads.

If you are careful in alternating from the left and right sides of the vise, the brads will remain reasonably straight. At this point you can either use a pair of pliers and push the brads through, or, if they are very tight, hammer the sharp end of the brad through the outer edge of the moulding. At some point you will have enough of the “blunt” end of the brad to grab with the pliers and pull the remainder through.

This will give you an assurance that there aren’t any nails left to screw up your Morsø blades, and leave you the maximum length of moulding to re-miter.

(Sorry, I can’t think of any way to make that clearer.)

Another suggestion: Buy a very inexpensive, magnetic “stud finder” found in most hardware stores. It is a little plastic gizmo with a floating magnet that is generally used to find nails in walls. When it senses a nail, it “stands at attention” and points to where the nail is. They have "electronic" stud finders these days, but I think they are a waste of money.

We find these stud finders very useful to check on old, separated mouldings to see if there are any nail fragments left.

[pixnut83]

Thank you for all your ideas.

Here's how to get old frames apart with a minimum of damage and maximum re-useability...

Lay the frame on a non-damaging surface, rebate up.
Cut two lengths of 2"X1" about 1/2" longer than the internal dimensions between opposite rebates, one for the long side, one for the short.
Then cut each 2x1 in half.
Lay the two halves of the appropriate length between the opposing vertical faces of the rebate and snug up to the side of the frame, so the two pieces form a shallow upward-pointing triangle.
Push down where the two half-lengths meet, avoiding the pinch hazard. A tap with a hammer may help, but with very little effort and very little damage you can part one corner, maybe two.
A couple of pieces of thin plywood can be placed into the mitre to help wiggle the joint apart by opening and closing the angle by about 10 degrees each way to aid in jacking the two sides apart.

With care and luck the nails remain intact and you maximise the reclaimable section for re-use.
John.

[prospero]

Glad to hear you are re-using old oakframes. Unlike most olde stuff, they actually look good even with a few dings here and there. A good coat of wax applied with fine steel wool brings them up a treat.

To break a frame apart with minimal damge, my usual method is to bang one corner on the floor to spring the joints (If they haven't already parted). Then place face up on bench with a diagonally opposite corner on the edge. Press down on the overhanging side while holding the other side flat to the bench. This way you are levering against the back of the moulding. Once you have two L's, you can hold them like a divining stick and twist, pulling the two ends together at the same time. Again, levering against the back.

I have a shedful waiting to be recycled.

[Bron]

My method is to first break the miter by laying a block of wood under the corner, and applying pressure, either by hand or with clamps, to the sides. Then I use a clamp that is reversed, that will open out on the rabbet. Protect the rabbet with clamp pads or blocks of wood. Some elaborate frame are cross nailed, requiring some hack sawing through the nails, then pulling the nail bits with a nipper with the rounded face, as shown in the image. This is also a good way to bring a warped frame back into plane, by breaking the corner, and gluing and filling.

IMG_4320092009.jpg (134.07 KiB) Viewed 4084 times

[bilhughes]

That is one very interesting blog you have there Bron
It make syou realise how big framing is and why you should start at three years old like ice skaters do if you want to learn the lot