Bainbridge Mountboard

[Jonny2morsos]

Due to the closure of a local supplier we needed to replace one of our mountboard offerings as our new supplier did not stock the same brands as our previous supplier.

After a struggle we managed to get a set of Bainbridge Artcare chevrons and supporting literature and I was keen to supply this aa a premium product.

I have sold a bit but generally only where there has been a particular requirement for a certian colour.

However, one colour a customer selected we were told was only available in black core despite a white core sample being in the set. More recently I had a job requiring two sheets to be used as a double mount in the same colour (Palm 8151). Our supplier had only one sheet and the second followed a week later. On doing the job I then found the two sheets despite being the same colour and having the correct number printed on the back are two different finishes one smooth and one textured.

Is this normal for Bainbridge to alter finishes and core colours without notification?

I am tempted to take them off display and offer the Arqadia/Larson Juhl range instead.

[Nigel Nobody]

Different batches can sometimes vary in colour slightly, but I've never seen a change in texture like that. The supplier might not realise this has happened and if you don't inform them, they can't do anything about it or seek to correct the problem. Send them both back and ask for two that are identical.

There are hundreds of colours in the range so it doesn't seem logical to me to throw an entire range out based on just one peculiarity!

If you continue that practise, by Christmas you won't have any products left to make frames with!

[Roboframer]

Oh the supplier knows allright - it's a problem with a few colours - Malacca is another one and I believe it's a problem in the US too.

Many faults with the range - the colour selector is years out of date and so is the price list, (not regarding actual price but regarding amounts of colours per finish) the vellums, which were designed to take wash/pen lines - don't (not consistently)

But I know the issues and work around them; I think it's worth it - the boards cut beautifully, no-one else does such a large range of colour and finish in the same quality (not that it can be exactly the same quality due to the patented bit) or the amount of oversized boards and the price is good too.

[Nigel Nobody]

Malacca - is that 8509? I'm not familiar with all the names of Alphamat, but more familiar with the numbers.

If that is the right one, I use quite a bit of that colour and certainly have never had different textures. Sheets from different batches will sometimes have a slightly less textured surface, but it's always the same texture pattern.

The main thing is that framers should not accept what they perceive as unacceptable for any given job. Send em back!

[Roboframer]

8509 it is Ormond - I'm impressed!

I only found that out by searching for this Grumble thread

I have bags of moulding refs in my head, but no mountboard - but I'm going to have a go at some of my fast movers - here goes...

8522 Sandcastle
8563 Igloo
8519 (no idea but I know I sell a lot)

That's about it!

Anyway - here's the last post from that thread, which explains a lot ...

"The entire paper industry is in flux. Mills make the paper, to the specifications provided by the specifier (the firms we deal with) and it is sent to a converter to be laminated and cut into sheets. The number of mills in the US is way down and it is harder for specifers to get just what they want (i.e. what they have shown you) from those that remain. It is evermore difficult for them to maintain issues like surface texture, while they have to struggle to keep color consistent. The best we can do is to support the best products we can find, in the market place."

[Nigel Nobody]

8519 - snowflake, I use a lot of that one too.
8466 - frost, I use a lot of that one too.
8467 - I think french white, I use a real lot of it.
8504 - shadow blue, I use a real lot of it.

Keith is the man that can tell us about mat components, especially Alphamat. He told me that Alphamat core has very strict specs. That's probably why it's pretty much the same all the time.

A few years ago I could remember the numbers of every moulding I kept in stock and most of the ones I bought chops in too, but my memory cells are disappearing at a rapid rate now. The numbers of a lot of mouldings are also not as logical as they once were which make it tough to remember them.

[Jonny2morsos]

Send them both back and ask for two that are identical.

There are hundreds of colours in the range so it doesn't seem logical to me to throw an entire range out based on just one peculiarity!

My supplier of this product only delivers on a Friday afternoon so I would have had at least a week to wait for replacements and I had started cutting the boards to size before I noticed. It had already taken three weeks to gather the boards in due to out of stock situation. So we used the one that was textured on top and the smooth as the second layer which actually looked OK and I informed the customer who was happy with the job (thankfully).

As I have only recently introduced this range I would rather change now and not have customers coming back asking for "the same as before" only to find it is a board I no longer stock. So yesterday morning as soon as I opened I got out an Arqadia chevron set sorted them into order and took the Bainbridge ones off display.

As a company I find Nielsen Bainbridge frustrating to deal with. It is very hard to get samples from them and because I use a wholesaler in one sales persons area and our business is in another's the samples have to come through our supplier's Rep. In the case of the above the first set of mountboard chevrons received were for the standard white core range not the Artcare range so they went to recycling while we waited for the corect set. Until last week my latest brochure was two years out of date and it took three phone calls and weeks of waiting to get one.

I would deal with them more if it was easier and I find it strange that Robo who lives on the south coast some 157 miles from Nielsen HQ gets a weekly van deliver but we are in the next county and have to have carrier delivery.

[WelshFramer]

After a struggle we managed to get a set of Bainbridge Artcare chevrons and supporting literature and I was keen to supply this aa a premium product.

That couldn't have been easy. I have a set that is clearly out of date as I'm frequently told boards I order are discontinued. I've asked for a new set but was refused.

Why is a company that sells such good products so difficult to deal with?

[Roboframer]

I don't have a problem with Nielsen at all, it was very difficult getting started with them though. I spend a small fortune with them, all my boards, (mount and backing) and a lot of moulding, wood and metal, it seems from all this and my own early experiences that they like established businesses but aren't too fussed about HELPING businesses get established. I get any samples I ask for, quickly and free, and get a very good discount that actually makes their boards cheaper than stuff that's not as good.

My rep is brilliant, but my 1st one wasn't, I remember when we finally got them to send a rep around (to our first shop) he told us "Well, order a decent amount on a regular basis and you'll see me again, if not, you won't"!

As for van deliveries, they have kept the old delivery routes going by delivering from Diss to London every night, they will surely establish routes from Diss in time.

[WelshFramer]

Well I guess my problem is that I'm too small for them to worry about.

Last week I ordered 150 ft of moulding (along with a pack of Artcare Restore and some mountboard). The moulding was to make some stacked frames so I ordered 150 foot of the other moulding from Simons for an exhibition. Two days later (after the Simons moulding had arrived) I received a phone call from NB to say that the moulding I had ordered was out of stock.

Why did it take 2 days to discover it was not in stock? What am I to do with 150 ft of Simons moulding and nothing to pair it up with? How am I going to finish these frames in time for the exhibition?

I was told that one of the NB managers would phone me to discuss the problem. Nobody has done. Maybe they went home early on Thursday, Maybe their phones weren't working on Friday. Maybe they forgot. Maybe the couldn't be bothered. Either way it has left me with a bitter taste and a reluctance to order anything more from them.

In reality I shall probably continue to use their mountboard and order it from them reluctantly - apart from a restricted selection from Wessex nobody else seems to sell their products, do they? I wonder why that is.

[Jonny2morsos]

Maybe their phones weren't working on Friday. Maybe they forgot. Maybe the couldn't be bothered.

They clear off home at lunchtime Friday.

The other week I ordered 14 chop frames from the and found one of the pairs of long sides had been mitred the wrong way!! It was midday on Friday when I discovered and rang them to be told "the chop shop is just closing" for the weekend and Monday following was the bank holiday!

To be fair the girl on the phone did pull out all the stops and replacements arrived on Tuesday but the job could have gone out (and been paid for) on the Friday.

[Not your average framer]

I also find them difficult to do business with, apart from the telephone girls, it's very hard to get to speak to anyone else. This means that if the information you require is not on the telephone girls computer screen.....Your stuffed!

As John (Robo) has already stated, the Bainbridge mountboard range of colours and finishes is probably the best in the business.

So how come they are so hard to deal with directly?

I'm in the process of changing my mountboard stock to a combination of Arqadia, Colourmount and Daler. Why? Well, I can get what I want, when I want it, nearly all the time, without doing my head in!

Like so many others, I still like bainbridge mountboard and still offer the Artcare range when appropiate. I only wish that NB could get their act together and make the business experience as good as their mountboard.

[Nigel Nobody]

It's diabolical that you guys have to put up with such difficulties from a supplier. Maybe they need to come down here and get some lessons from our top suppliers. I reckon NB headquarters in US would be very surprised at what you guys are experiencing from NB UK. Maybe the management needs a boot up their backsides?

Down here, NB products are imported by Megawood and they are my biggest supplier by far. There are no company deliveries as I am about 7 hours drive away from the Brisbane warehouse. However, if I order early morning, I usually get my delivery by around lunchtime the next day.

[Keith Hewitt]

Maybe they need to come down here and get some lessons from our top suppliers.

Ormond,

From what I hear it a case of different country different attitudes Most people say how good is Megawood, and slag off LJ in OZ.

Over here its just the opposite. NB gets frequently bad mouthed, whilst LJ ( or Arqadia as they are called here in UK)) are one of the top 2 suppliers, and frequently win the F.A.T.G. award for " Best Supplier".

At the end of the day its all down to how the biz is managed and how the staff are chosen and motivated ..... or NOT.

[Nigel Nobody]

At the end of the day its all down to how the biz is managed and how the staff are chosen and motivated ..... or NOT.

That's true Keith, but surely the staff's motivation or lack of it should be of concern to someone higher up? If it continues the way it is, they will continue to lose more market share in UK. If that has happened in the past and is continuing to happen, someone higher up really should notice that and wonder why? Don't they care about sales?

Maybe the NB people in US haven't noticed? Maybe they're too busy to notice! maybe they don't give a rats....?

[Roboframer]

My rep is one of Nielsen's 'Golden Boys' - so good-looking I sometimes wish I was a woman.

He came to them from Euro Mouldings where he'd worked his way up from delivery van driver to key accounts* manager - we've known him pretty much since day one; he used to come to our house when we worked from the garage.

When Euro's went bust he moved to Nielsen and brought them about 90 new accounts - doubled his sales targets regularly. When the reps do any sort of show/seminar, he's the guy trusted with the company credit card to pay the hotel (etc) bill. When the CEO visits the country (an American guy in his mid 70's who starts the day at some ridiculous hour like 0500 and does not suffer fools easily) it's my rep who picks him up and escorts him.

Nielsen reps never used to carry sanples of new stuff, they'd just bring the new catalogue. For me that never worked, their stuff was expensive and I needed more. My rep changed that, which P'd off some reps that now have to lug around big cases on wheels, like most reps have to. But that worked for me as I realised that the catalogue photos of their 'exclusive' range never did it justice, and I suppose it worked for many others too.

Anyway, I'll draw my rep's attention to this topic, just as long as he doesn't gain a promotion by sorting it all out and we get a different rep (unless she's got big boobies)

* Key accounts - maybe that's what the problem is - I remember when this guy got promoted to Euro Mouldings key accounts manager. We moved to where we are now, from our much (MUCH) smaller shop at the same time, and it happened over a weekend. About 3 months later the guy comes around to introduce a new and 'normal' rep. They'd turned up at the old place and were shown to this one, which blew him away; he went through the formalities, but before he left and out of earshot of the new rep, he told me it would be himself that would be calling; not the new rep.

So, I was now a Key Account! What did I do to deserve that? Maybe it's square footage, maybe it's turnover/anticipated turnover.

Maybe Nielsen give preferential treatment to those with large high-vis shop fronts, or are VAT registered - no idea, all I know is they treat me well.

Is it mostly non VAT registered/non high st location custom framers that are having the problems I'm not having, or are they just scared of my wife like everyone else?

[Nigel Nobody]

guy in his mid 70's who starts the day at some ridiculous hour like 0500 and does not suffer fools easily

John,
I resemble that remark about 0500 being a ridiculous hour! It's a perfectly logical, understandable and normal time to start the day, IMHO!
I must admit that this morning I was up late - 5:08!

I don't suffer fools either, so perhaps there's a link between 0500 starts and intolerance of fools!

[Keith Hewitt]

Last 2 posts reminds me of the poem...

Early to bed, early to rise
Work hard, and advertise !!

Its worked for me - just a pity that the ad budget was never enough!!

[WelshFramer]

Anyway, I'll draw my rep's attention to this topic,

Please do. And why you're about it please also ask him why:

:: They would not sell me any Artcare Restore until the rep had called to see if I was a suitable person to have as a customer.
:: When the rep finally did call he was quite unpleasant, more like a tax inspector and was very rude about my moulding samples.
:: They advertise a free temperature tester in every box of Artcare Restore but ignore all requests to provide one.
:: They advertise Artcare Restore labels to apply to the backs of the frames but never supply any.
:: They have a new rep for this area now but he/she has never bothered to contact me even by phone.
:: I have to phone to get an invoice out of them - generally they only send a statement which doesn't list prices of the items.
:: They don't have a decent website showing products, listing prices and providing order facilities like most other suppliers.

I could go on ....

[Steve N]

I don't at the moment deal with NB, but where I last worked we did, we stocked over 75% of their mount colours, we were not a small account, but a major one in the area where we were based, we even had the UK's MD come to visit us.
I find it hard to believe that it used to takes them over six weeks for them to get mountcard back in stock, also I remember giving them an order which was well over their minimum limit, then had a phone call to say that they were out of stock of several items and the order was now under the limit, so they could not send it I had a good go at them pointing out that it was not my fault they are out of stock of the items, so they had better send it, or it would be the last order they would get from us. I was not long after that when we stopped dealing with them (but that's another story) , within one week we got rid of all their stock and replace it with another supplier's.