HELP AND IDEAS PLEASE

[DEEPJOY]

Hi All

Thank you for tuning in.

Customer requests his water skiing vest and ribbon-ed medal to be framed, with some form of plaque included to give people the heads-up on why the item is framed and what a hero he must be. He leaves it to me to present him with a finish work of art, believing I know best! Oh dear!!!

Just as I am about to embark on the planning of the build and choose the in-stock moulding, he then rings me and advises he has left me another vest to include 2 ribbon-ed medals at the reception of his accountants for me to collect. So now 2 vests in separate frames, 1 with 1 medal and 1 with 2 medals both with descriptive plaques. Oh, he will require the moulding for both to now be the same. I know have to buy the moulding in now and I am unsure of a number of things as detailed below: -

a) I am in Nottingham on Thursday, what do Ashworth & Thompson have in the way of moulding that lends itself to a framed shirt that is the 'dogs under-carriage' and is the right money?
I am thinking of standardising the moulding for this type of framing, especially for this guy as I hope he will be back for more.
b) I reckon the frame will be around 800mm x 800mm, is 2.0mm float glass OK, as these will reside in his home?
c) Ideas on a good looking plaque, something that looks like engraved polished brass or chrome, but not the price of as said?
d) The medals are on ribbons designed to wear around the neck - from a layout point of view, would you keep them in the traditional triangle display as they fall nicely into this shape, or some other way?
e) Would you tend to keep things bunched to aid the scale of economy, or would you give them a good degree of space?

It would be good to hear your ideas, as I want him to be blown away with what I eventually give him. He is a good friend, one I can ill afford to loose as a result of a poor job, so your assistance would be very helpful and greatly appreciated.

Deepjoy
Regards Deepjoy

[Nigel Nobody]

Photos of the items would be a big help!

[Keith Hewitt]

For box frame ideas to check out 2 of the best I know are.....

In Singapore.... Angui Mui

http://www.framingangie.com/index2.htm

Look under Framing memories and 3D Framing
============================

and from Bath - Martin Tracey ......
http://www.theframingworkshop.com/

Open "Memorabilia "

[Gesso&Bole]

When people say they are going to leave it up to you- I find there are two types. . .

Those that really do want you to do it, and will genuinely be happy with your choice, and those that don't know what they want, and are too busy to concentrate for half an hour whilst you go through the options. People in the first category are normally ones that you have done work for before, and they were guided by you, and were happy with the result.

Judging by your question, I suspect that you are suffering a degree of angst, that you may not get the job right for him. My approach would be to work up 2 possible solutions for the layout, and 2 frame options, these can be roughly drawn out on a piece of paper, and priced up, then just ask your friend which layout he prefers, and which of the 2 frames he prefers. If you have the price written on there too, then that avoids the embarrassment of discussing prices with a friend.

This approach will ensure that you don't go off on a tangent that your friend/customer does not like. If he is really busy, and time is tight, then perhaps this could be done by email.

Ashworth and Thompson have loads of mouldings that would do the job I'm sure.

Good luck - don't forget to post a picture of the finished items on the forum

[mikeysaling]

something to experiment with maybe - plaques

plaqueex.jpg (63.87 KiB) Viewed 8332 times

two plaques produced on coral word perfect (but suppose any WP prog will be similar) silver is RGB 191,191,191 and the brass 181,166,66 - printed on heavy gloss photo paper and stuck to mountboard. bevel cut on my keencut ultimat

effect can be seen on my post 'family group of medals' in good bad and ugly - we use only red and blue plaques to go with the velveteen backgrounds

hope thats useful

mikey

[Roboframer]

I reckon the frame will be around 800mm x 800mm, is 2.0mm float glass OK, as these will reside in his home?

That size is safe enough as long as he does not have a record of smashing picture glass due to boisterous kids etc.

Ideas on a good looking plaque, something that looks like engraved polished brass or chrome, but not the price of as said?

Print the flattery on gold/silver/whatever foil paper and put it in an aperture below the shirt (or wherever); edge the aperture with a mount fillet.

The medals are on ribbons designed to wear around the neck - from a layout point of view, would you keep them in the traditional triangle display as they fall nicely into this shape, or some other way?

You could fold and sew/tag them in to a square/rectangle to 'frame' the above-mentioned aperture. Not a complete square/rectangle of course; the bottom, with the medal would be a gentle 'V'. (Would be nice if you could make the aperture that shape, if you can then forget the mount slip and make it a double mount) As well as looking nifty this would save some space. You could also place it on the vest as it would be worn, which would save even more space!

Would you tend to keep things bunched to aid the scale of economy, or would you give them a good degree of space?

The second option

[DEEPJOY]

Hi All

Thank you all for your support and ideas, please keep them coming.

Roboframer wrote:Print the flattery on gold/silver/whatever foil paper and put it in an aperture below the shirt (or wherever); edge the aperture with a mount fillet.

Where do I get the foil paper from, does it have a brand name? Can you feed this into a normal inkjet printer?

Regards
Deepjoy

[Roboframer]

Sorry, maybe I should have said 'Get the flattery printed on foil paper' - would be far cheaper than an engraved metal plate.

We sell foil paper - you can get it from any good craft shop - but I've never tried printing on it from my pretty basic HP printer. We do also have a digital colour photocopier though, and I know that that will copy on to acetate, no problem, so I'm guessing it would also handle foil paper and so might my printer, I'll have a go with both, see what happens.

Anyway, why does the background need to be metallic? A good quality paper, with any font, in any colour you like, would look good; edge the aperture with a gold/silver fillet and it would knock the socks off a metal plate stuck to the mount or the frame.

[stcstc]

i would be very suprised if the inkjet works, papers need to have a special coating on them for inkjet printing of any quality

and as for the photocopier, be very very careful, i have seen some really messed up copiers where stuff has melted inside etc as they were not safe for use in the machine

all you need to do is find a local company that does pictures onto mugs etc, they will be able to do a sublimation print onto a little metal plaque, and it wont cost much, or shouldnt

[framemaker]

I get little engraved plaques from a local company that sells trophies, they do all sorts, from solid brass (expensive) to the shiny aluminium and brass effect plaques. These cost between £7 and £12 depending on the size and number of words, which is not a great deal in a medal/object framing job.

If your unsure about layout and the design being left upto you, then as Jim said, get your friend to come round and look at some designs.

Maybe a couple of photos of the items laid out roughly how you think they should go, and people can come up with some more ideas.

[DEEPJOY]

Back again sorry.

Would you recommend standard planed softwood, from a normal timber merchant or DIY store to use as a subframe box for memorabilla /shirt framing?
This would be painted or stained, but could you rely on it to be structually reliable and stand the test of time?

[mikeysaling]

be careful about wood to make a box - diy and timber merchants rarely have kiln dried and/or 'stable' wood - you must have something like arqadia 'framebox' .

i'm sure someone else here can add to this about moisture content on bare wood

[Roboframer]

Take the problem out of the equation by making a box from a flat profile framing moulding mitred on its side - choose one to match the outer frame and sit the outer frame inside instead of sitting the box inside the outer frame.

I want him to be blown away with what I eventually give him.

Most every framer solves the problem of depth by making a box from battens that......

a. Don't match the frame (unless they are both hand finished or you're lucky)

b. Poke out of the back like a cuckoo clock.

Have a look at this method http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2507. You'll see the box does not even have to be perfectly flat either.

But there are plenty of mouldings out there with Joyfully Deep enough rebates to accommodate a shirt, say you use a 5mm former and the mount(s) and backing account for another (unlikely) 15mm - still leaves 5mm space from the glass.

BTW, I tried printing on to foil paper - pretty crap, but the photocopier did the job fine, it was pretty flimsy stuff too.

[Roboframer]

you must have something like arqadia 'framebox'

Is that stuff still going?

Tried it when it first came out, way before I became a born again framer, not nice IMHO

[Roboframer]

But there are plenty of mouldings out there with Joyfully Deep enough rebates to accommodate a shirt, say you use a 5mm former and the mount(s) and backing account for another (unlikely) 15mm - still leaves 5mm space from the glass.

Meant to include "assuming a rebate depth of 25mm"

(PS - now we have a moderator team, can the issue of the very short editing time be looked at again, here's an example of where a longer one would have saved a quote ..... and this post, and made things flow better)

[mikeysaling]

Is that stuff still going?

Tried it when it first came out, way before I became a born again framer, not nice IMHO

it's still listed in jan 2010 price list - i have used it (but not often) makes a sturdy box on the back of the frame: needs finishing before chopping or lining with mountboard . worth considering if you want a deep box . I mentioned it because it will not have the moisture content of wood from diy or timber merchants.

Agree with robo re extra time for edit - it can be a bit frustrating when doing a long post or one with images that don't come out as expected .

[DEEPJOY]

Hi Robo

[quote][quote="Roboframer"]Take the problem out of the equation by making a box from a flat profile framing moulding mitred on its side - choose one to match the outer frame and sit the outer frame inside instead of sitting the box inside the outer frame.

Ok so I understand this Robo - the inner frame when laid face down, would be loaded with the glass and lets say a mount board frame? Is this then all held together with a tab gun?

The outer frame is then turned over and offered down onto the inner frame. Is this glued (no nails), or fletcher gun tabs the type that allow a screw fixing?

Glue inside spacers with mount board facia around all 4 sides. Turn the already mounted artwork upside down and offer down onto the side spacers that now offer the support.

Finally cover back with prefered backing board, fixing with panel pins?

Is this about it???

[pinkybanks]

Mike,

If you'd like a little bit of confidence to tackle the job...let me know, i'll gladly point you in the direction.
Loads of different ways to approach this but the offer is there.

[Roboframer]

the inner frame when laid face down, would be loaded with the glass and lets say a mount board frame? Is this then all held together with a tab gun?

You could do that, as long as that's the look you want, but still line the inside of the box with foam board, in turn lined with mount board to match your backing mount (or contrast, whatever) This will also replace the rebate you have lost and give something for your mount and backing board to sit in. Personally/generally I don't like the look of a mount in a box frame, the space beneath it is wasted and arouses curiosity. You could however line the sides of the mount aperture

Or you could just forget the mount and use foamboard spacers like this ... (from above link) but with glass in place first.

stacked1.JPG

As you can see though, the wider the 'capping' moulding, the more material you'll need to bring the spacer up to the sight edge, which it does have to be of course, to hold the glass in. With all the strength in the box and not the capping moulding, you can afford to use quite narrow capping frames on large jobs with this method. If you want a good default combination, find a flat profile with a fair rebate and a narrow capping frame, so you get hardly any overlap to pack out.

The outer frame is then turned over and offered down onto the inner frame. Is this glued (no nails), or fletcher gun tabs the type that allow a screw fixing?

You could do either, but some say if you glue it, it is difficult/impossible to take it apart again without damage, as far as I'm concerned the two mouldings become one, but I will screw them together as long as it is easy to do so.

[fineedge]

I haven't read the whole thread properly but I once did some gold and platinum discs for a musician and the script details were burnt onto acetate ( black obviously ) and this was then placed over a metallic paper making it look as thought it was printed on the paper (this was put into a window/ aperture in the mount )