Sticking down a large laminated map ?

[Bagpuss]

Has anyone attempted to stick down a laminated Ordnance Survey map before ? I can't put it in my Hotpress, too big, it's 95 x 130cm approx.
It will be going within a frame and I will probably be using Acrylic instead of glass and I will probably have the Acrylic laying directly on top of the map.

I was thinking about outsourcing it for drymounting in a large Hotpress, I still may but I thought I could probably stick it down myself given that it's already laminated so pretty robust.

So a couple of quetsions;
-What should I stick it down onto ?
-What should I use to stick it down ?

Thanks,
Adam/Bagpuss

map.jpg (60.51 KiB) Viewed 6529 times

[stcstc]

if its laminated already, be careful putting it in a hotpress, you really dont know how the laminate is going to react to the heat

I would be tempted to actually cold press it, on a jetmounter

is it laminated on both sides?

if so i would suggest you talk to the wizard of sticky stuff steve goodall, he will certainly be able to tell you what to use, and even who local to you that you could outsource it to

a product worth looking at as the substrate would be diabond, its an aluminum composite which is very stiff for its thickness and actually quite light

[prospero]

You could try this..... Get some heavy duty double-stick carpet tape and cover a board with strips, leaving the release paper on the upside. Line up the map on the board and weight it in the middle so it doesn't move. Then lift one edge and peel off the first strip of release paper and smooth the map down. Then just lift the opposite side and peel/smooth one strip at a time. OK, it's not going to last forever, but I have some sample boards I did this way more than 20 years ago and they are still stuck well.

6mm MDF would be a good support. Seal the front and back with PVA first. Just a pity it's over 4ft as it means getting a 8x4 sheet cut to size.

[Steve Goodall]

Hey Baggy,

I think you are coming to see me on Tuesday - at The Wessex Pictures - Ashford - Hot Press Clinic...

If so we can disuss it more then - if not let me know & I'll offer a few suggestions here...

In the meantime - encapsulation film on maps needs a temp of around 160 to 180 degrees c to activate - so putting it in a press is never a problem - assuming you have a press big enough...

It won't bubble or delaminate either - so don't panic!!!

Next - because the back of encapsulated maps are so "shiny" they don't really like holding on to glue - so...

"Steve's Top Tip Time" - use sandpaper on the back surface to create a rougher keay which adhesive finds it easier to hold on to...

BTW - the event on Tuesday at Wessex Ashford is free to attend & we are there from 10am to 4pm - problem solving / doing demos / giving out samples & lit/DVDs etc - no need to book - just turn up for 5 minutes or 5 hours - it's an "open house"!!! We have special offers on machinery & materials too - so all in all plenty of reasons to pop along!!!

[absolute framing]

Hi Bagpus,

I've done this before. Its a 2 person job (at least it should be)

First sand the back of the laminate with sandpaper to roughen the surface.
I used 9mm MDF - Sand or lightly score MDF - Prime it first with 20% Water and 80% PVA - Left to dry - Then apply PVA with a roller - Place Map on wet PVA and smooth out with rubber roller (Lion) or a cloth. - Clean up excess PVA - Make sure there is NO PVA on the face of the map - Place sheets of glass on top to keep the pressere on and leave overnight - Frame next day.

I have also done the same job using Sundeala Board, this was to allow the customer to place pins on the map.- (No Glazing )

Good Luck

Stephen

[mikeysaling]

i suppose i'll be jumped on but whats wrong with 3m super77 on mountboard then with mdf back - if its laminated should be ok you could even use upholstery spray glue. not sure about hot-presses ? cold press sounds safer - wonder what the actual map is made from - is it paper or a synthetic of some kind.

[prospero]

Jump!

If spray glue was used it would soon turn into relief map.

[Bagpuss]

Jump!

If spray glue was used it would soon turn into relief map.

thanks to everyone for their input on this, this map is for a good friend of mine, he is quite ... "picky", I'm sure everyone has a friend like this I'll have a word with Mr Goodhall at Ashford/Wessex on Tuesday.
I quite like the idea of rubbing down the reverse of the laminate and pasting it but it's just occurred to me that it's a double sided map I think I better check with my friend before I crack open the PVA
Thanks again,
Adam/Bagpuss

[prospero]

Even better. Sheet of acrylic on the front, sheet of acrylic on the back - sorted.

[Custard]

What a great forum this is...so much to learn!

[Bagpuss]

Even better. Sheet of acrylic on the front, sheet of acrylic on the back - sorted.

why didn't I think of that ?? Assuming that it's effectively pressed between the 2 sheets of acrylic, would I just use some heavy duty tape around the edges to hold it together ? ( before securing it within a frame )
Thanks,
Adam/Bagpuss

[prospero]

There is one possible snag with the sandwich. Sometimes you get weird visual effects when you press acrylic to a shiny surface.

[Nigel Nobody]

If this map is laminated both sides, there is no point in glazing it with acrylic, because it's already protected by the laminate. As for using acrylic on both sides, apart from the unnecessary expense, the centre of the sheets will not be pressed tightly together and will probably bulge away from each other, leaving the map to buckle.

PVA doesn't bond to laminated surfaces very well, however, EVA does bond very well. It can be rolled on and the map can be rolled on with a rubber roller. If the EVA goes off too quickly, it can be reactivated with heat, less than 160 to prevent the adhesive on the laminate from melting.

IMO it would be best to have it mounted on something like dibond by someone who has the right equipment.

[Bagpuss]

If this map is laminated both sides, there is no point in glazing it with acrylic, because it's already protected by the laminate.

Do you think I could leave the map exposed then, once I've stuck it down ? And what is EVA glue ?
thanks,
Adam

[absolute framing]

FYI - All the laminited maps I have done have gone out un-glazed

[Bagpuss]

FYI - All the laminited maps I have done have gone out un-glazed

But they still have a frame round them ? Just wondering how that might look.
chrs,
Adam

[framemaker]

Hi Adam,

when I think of a laminated map I think of something that is stuck to a wall with four drawing pins and a double sided one makes mounting it down a little tricky.
If it was one sided, surely it would have been better if the map had been mounted on MDF, foamex or dibond and laminated at the same time! But I know things don't work out like that, so the suggestions about sanding the back and gluing seem pretty good to me.

If someone came to me and wanted a double sided map perfectly flat so it could have a frame around it, the thing that would first come to mind is order a copy of the map unlaminated, then could you not used the clear mounting film (the film used to mount an image to acrylic) and mount it in a roller laminator between two pieces of acrylic? just an idea.

[absolute framing]

Yep Adam, They get a frame. They were all one sided maps though.

To be honest I hate doing these jobs as they are a PITA, however if they pay I make.

Would be interested to here how you get on with Steve from Hotpress.

[prospero]

I suppose the really elegant solution would be to get two copies of the map, un-laminated and drymount them both. (one 'face' down).

[Nigel Nobody]

Do you think I could leave the map exposed then, once I've stuck it down ? And what is EVA glue ?
thanks,
Adam

Adam,
If the map is laminated, it's not exposed! The reason it's laminated is to protect it from dust, damp, fly dirt, etc, etc.
Glazing something that already has protection is like putting glass over glass to protect it.

EVA is like PVA except it stays sticky longer and can be heat activated. Some brands activate by heat better than others.

Some of the methods stated in this topic seem a bit complex and expensive to me! I like the 'KISS' principle and I think in this case it's appropriate.
I'm sure you've heard it before, but just in case you haven't, it means "Keep It Simple, Stupid".