Van or Car?

[the framing lady]

Hi All

Our Jag estate is finally nearing the end of its useful life and needs to be replaced, but with what? We don't shift a lot of stuff or even drive very far but I do need to have the ability to transport moulding lengths every week - the jag will just about accommodate that. The question really is do we go for another estate and use that as our family car or do I buy a small van for the business and a hatchback for us? What does everyone else use? I'm quite partial to a BMW 3 series estate but I'll have to check that it can take 3m lengths.

Cheers,

Anna-Marie

[Jonny2morsos]

I have had two Citroen Picassos. OK the build quality is pretty bad but for practicality purposes they take some beating. Will take 3m lengths of moulding and the three rear seats all fold individually or are removable.

Used to take out the seats and do a booze run to Calais every Christmas when the Pound/Euro exchange rate was favourable.

They have been very practical while the children were young but I think the next change will be for something better.

Having said built quality is low I have only had one small repair on each. It is just the flimsy interior trim that lets them down.

[FrameOn]

I drive a VW Caddy Maxi Life. This has two rows of seats in the back. You can take the back row out and fold the second row forward so it becomes a van. We can take the family and grandchildren out, move pictures etc. and put the mountain bikes in the back. The interior is fitted out like a car rather than a van so I bought a custom made boot liner from Rhino which means I can convert the back part for 'dirty' use when needed.

I've had this since last summer and think it is great. We took the family to the Yorkshire dales for a week when we got it - so much better than going everywhere in two cars.

Before that I used to run two vehicles but now only one.

Richard

[Dave]

I would say this is best answered by your accountant, van leasing can be very attractive to some businesses in tax terms whilst using your personal vehicle can be very good for others.

If it comes down to reasons other than financial, very few cars will take 3.0m lengths without them going into the passenger footwell or on the dash. This usually ends up in some damage being done to the vehicle and the moulding. I have had the volvo xc70 and a Lexus rh400, both biggish estates and neither would take moulding straight.

I keep thinking of having a van to tootle around in and having it emblazened in advertising for the shop. The cost of insuring, taxing, servicing, moting etc. puts me off though more than the cost of buying or leasing a van. Also I prefer to drive a nice comfy car than a basic van, so would still run a car. Personal preference.

Dave

[Tudor Rose]

We've got a VW Transporter with a double row of seats and until recently this was our only vehicle. We bought the long wheel base version - this allows you to claim the VAT back because of the weight allowance with all the seats in. But because it seats 6 it is insured as a car and we pay car rate tolls etc.

It is really nice to drive and the second row of seats comes out if we need the extra space. It has signwriting on it and has been a great advert for us, people often tell us that seeing the van driving around has reminded them they need something framing. We were originally looking to change it every 3-5 years but it is such a good workhorse we will probably keep it for a lot more years than that.

[misterdiy]

This is the same conundrum that I have at the moment. Whilst doing the "day job" until last February, I was running an expensive 4x4 (still am ) and had decided to bu a small runabout and a van. Then there was the fuel issue. Van's seem to be quite poor (but not as bad as my 4x4) and it would need to stay at work most of the time since I don't hump much stuff about. When I do a mate up the road who has a motorbike spares business lends me his. My 4x4 will take 3 metre lengths of moulding resting on the dashboard and into the back corner. To be honest it will take a bit more. A year on from the dash from good money to picture framing, I still have the 4x4 and decided against the van, but whatever vehicle I change to needs to be more fuel efficient and take 3 metre lengths of moulding. Currently my favourite is the Audi A6 Avant which will take the length. From a business perspective, I just charge the business mileage at 45p/mile for business stuff.

The main advantage of the van is the sign writing and if this is done well will be as good as local advertising. We had a van in our previous picture framing business and loads said they "saw the van"

[prospero]

I've got a series two Discovery and it can carry a lot of stuff. Before that I had a Range Rover and that was great for 3m lengths as you could open the top of the spilt tailgate and poke the ends out. I've had had 1000ft of medium-sized moulding in it that way. The Disco isn't quite so versatile that way. Newer models tend to have more padding and sticky-out bits inside which makes stacking things more tricky.
The best car I had for for moving stuff was my old Granada estate. Fold the back seats down and you had a 6ft x 4ft flat floor.

The best way for 3m lengths is a roof-rack.

A m8 of mine uses a VW transporter. Take out the back seats and you could hold a dance inside. I once framed him a picture to sit exactly inside. The frame was about 7ft6" x4ft6".

[birdman]

We've struggled with the same decision but haven't taken the plunge yet. We currently have a Ford Galaxy and we've also had the Seat Alhambra. Both of them take the moulding lengths with ease although they do have to rest on the dashboard but it's never been a problem. We can also carry mountboard, backing board and glass in the back, normally laid flat on the floor or across the seats with the back folded down. The seats also come out, or fold down in the newer version, and so we have a "van" when we need one. The boot liner option sounds like a good idea but a bit late for us.

The van if purchased may be 100% allowable against your tax bill and the cost of running it too, because the tax man doesn't expect you to use it as a family car. A car has to have the costs shared between business and personal use and is I think only 25% allowable but your Accountant is the person to advise you.

We have one of our cars with graphics on the side and back and that has been a great investment because we are advertising all the time. When it is time to replace the Galaxy I will definitely consider a van and a smaller car for personal use, but your decision has to fit in with both your business and personal life.

Good luck with your decision and let us know what you decide.

[Framerpicture]

I'm quite partial to a BMW 3 series estate but I'll have to check that it can take 3m lengths.

Hi

I have a 3 series estate and its difficult to get a 3m length in without it being at an angle and on the dash but other than that I'd wholly reccommend, great cars!

[stcstc]

i have a mitsubishi L200

its a workhorse

and actually not mad money to run, its a crew cab so 4 seats but classed as commercial so saves on tax and can claim vat back etc

[Graysalchemy]

If you are buying it through your business check with your accountant which is the most tax efficient. I don't think a van attracts benifit in kind charges on your personal tax. There again an accountant may say it is better to buy a car and charge the business mileage.

[Gesso&Bole]

There's no doubt that if you have a van, and are VAT registered, it is more tax efficient than a car. If you are not VAT registered, then it is still more tax efficient, but rather more marginal. This could easily be wiped out by the insurance and road tax payments for 2 vehicles rather than 1.

So, my advice would be.

Have just one vehicle, unless you really need two. If you are happy to drive a van, then VW Transporter, Mercedes Vito etc are very nice to drive, and have the option of some smart sign-writing, but you will still be putting moulding in at an angle unless you go for the longer wheelbase models.

If you don't fancy driving a van all the time, then an estate car (new passat very nice, or merc, volvo) will all fit moulding from corner to corner, and you can always sign write a car too.

BTW, as your business grows, you wont have time to collect your moulding as you do now, so it will be less of an issue.

[the framing lady]

I think I know where this is going. The question only arose because our next door neighbour had a Kango with 30k on the clock for 4 grand. Paying up for 2 loads of insurance/tax will more than wipe out any savings on the tax bill. 3 series it is, unless Jim feels like selling his Audi, after all you're not transporting anything worth talking about anymore are you?

[Gesso&Bole]

Anna-Marie you might have to sell lots of frames to pay for that Audi!